Well first off,

A 500 HP VR4 is going to be A LOT different than a 500 HP prelude. Don't get me wrong the prelude is no chump, but having all 4 wheels launching that power to the ground is amazing. There really aren't too many traction issues at all with the VR4. People are making well into the 5XX-6XX HP without any major traction problems.

And the question regarding the tune on 93. That just depends on your needs. Again, some guys are pushing up into the 600's with just 93 octane. For what they are, the stock heads actually are pretty efficient. Obviously you'll see good gains with the staged heads. Once you get into those high of numbers you almost HAVE to have some sort of engine management system. AEM EMS is most likely used to get a base tune and go from there...

Hope you find a good one and good luck!

 

There's a few other things you have to look at....what turbos they are using....i'm pushing 523 fairly easily on pump gas...but i would do even better with a nice big single turbo like a gt42r...i'd be well over 600 awhp and just as much torque. You're going to get alot of torque out of this deal as well, so yeah you might not see a whole lot of 3s pushing over 500 on pump gas...but you can bet that the ones below 500 are pushing quite a bit of torque and a HELL of a lot of power under the curve..since chances are they are td04 setups that spool quickly...giving them lots-o-power down low, in the middle, and a lot left for up top...all while having no real traction issues (relatively speaking)....if it's overall power you want...get a single turbo or dr1000 twins for your 3s...and your pump gas setting will flow well past 600 all day long. The 3s heads actually flow alot more than you think....our stock cams might be a bottleneck..yes...that aside...these heads flow quite a bit stock.

 

^^And to add to that, if you start doing things like DR Stage III heads and tubular intake manifold, stroker motors and the like, 600 reliable WHP on pump shouldn't be an issue.

 

lets just say VR-4 FTW!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well - if traction is something you're looking to achieve let me put it to you this way... on a Launch is where most of these cars "may" experience traction "problems"... and even then, you'll find that just about everybody on here averages at least 1.8-1.9 sec 60'. That said - there's tons of traction after that. Those 60' times are usually on crappy everyday street tires. Where you're probably used to braking your tires loose when punching it at 60 mph in your prelude - you'll only really have to worry about that in 1st gear once you're above 500 AWHP.

Just curious - what are the mods on the Prelude? I've always liked those cars.

In anycase I'm probably around the 500 AWHP mark right now on pump - and I litterally have nothing more than turbos and fuel. I'm even on sidemounts which aren't the most efficient things out there. If you're willing to spend the money (which it appears that you are seeing that 500 hp on PUMP for a 4 cyl is no joke!) You can get there very easily - and if you got heads, then you'd achieve that number at lower boost, and open it up and the top end more if you wanted. Even then - there's always meth injection if you chose to go that route.

Just a little note - if you do go with a VR4 or RT TT - the smallest turbo you'd probably want to go with for consistant 500+ AWHP on pump would be TD05's. Hey.. you could always join the "e16G Fan Club" :bandit:

Happy hunting.

 

e16g fan club FTW.

 

Stock heads, and cams? 500fwhp? Whats your turbo and fuel setup? Lastly can you post some dyno sheets?

 

"Upgrading from a Honda to a VR4."

I knew this day would come

 

Thanks for the responses guys. I think my decision to buy a VR4 will be alot easier if I can get 600hp on 93 and not having to worry too much about traction. I think that would be incredible and beyond what is possible with my Prelude. Lol..If my Prelude had 600hp, I'm sure it wouldn't hook up until 5th gear, even on my M&H drag radials. I found out the hard way that a high hp Honda does not make a practical street car. It would be fine on the track and with big enough slicks but I want quick daily driver.

So, would 600hp make a VR4 capable of 10's and would it perform the same on and off the track? Sorry, I'm inexperienced with AWD. Does the stock drivetrain have to be built up to handle that much power. I haven't broken a tranny, or an axle yet in my Prelude, but I'm probably not getting enough traction to break anything.

Also, there seems to be a lot of thing people haven't tried yet with this platform like swapping to MIVEC heads and twincharging. Right? Sorry if that seems odd, but coming from working with Honda's I can say that just about every combination you can think of has been done.

As for my Prelude setup, its a '95 with a basic 2.2l Type R swap, bone stock head, sleeved block, 9.0:1 Wiseco's, Pauter rods, CRP ramhorn manifold, Precision GT35R, 3" DP and exhaust, Venom IM, Walbro 255, 880cc, ignition converted to COP, AEM Twin Fire, CBR1000RR coil packs, AEM UEGO, and finally AEM EMS. It also has a ton of weight reduction.

 

As for my Prelude setup, its a '95 with a basic 2.2l Type R swap, bone stock head, sleeved block, 9.0:1 Wiseco's, Pauter rods, CRP ramhorn manifold, Precision GT35R, 3" DP and exhaust, Venom IM, Walbro 255, 880cc, ignition converted to COP, AEM Twin Fire, CBR1000RR coil packs, AEM UEGO, and finally AEM EMS. It also has a ton of weight reduction.

What is a 2.2l Type R? I have heard of the Red Valve cover H22 2.2L Vtec Type S motor, then you have the Blue Valve Cover in Euro H23, 2.3L Vtec. But I have never heard of a 2.2L Type R swap.

 

You are going to need to beef up the stock drivetrain a bit to handle 600awhp. Your axles won't be a problem but you are going to want to get a transfer case bracket and a 300m output shaft. With R compound tires you should have no issues with traction up to 600awhp even when launching. The easiest way to get to your goals would probably be convert to TD05, get some 16, 18 or 20gs, 720cc injectors, dual walbros, tuning method of your choice (SAFC2, AEM EMS, whatever), Stage 3 heads, fmic, and meth injection.

 

500fwhp on a 255 walbro. No. 2.2l Accord type R engine? Why? Do you have dyno sheets?

 

If you plan on doing 600WHP launches on the street daily driven then yes you are going to want to beef up the transfer case which is the weak link in our system (1991-1993). If you take off from a stop normally and then punch it at 5mph then you will have less chance of breaking stuff and you will still outrun 99.9% of anything else on the street

 

Ok, my mistake their is a 2.2L Type R Motor it came out of a Accord Type R (1998-2003) But the motor is the same as a H22A that all USDM Prelude come with. So nothing special 210 bhp @ 7,200 rpm and 160 lb·ft (214 N·m) @ 6,700 rpm

 

I don't know if you would be able to get a vr4 into the 10's with 600 awhp....but it would definitely have 10 second trap speeds at the minimum. It takes ALOT of passes to figure out how to get a 3s into an E/T that matches its trap speeds, I think mainly because of breaking the inertia of such an inherently heavy vehicle off the line, I'm sure with some weight reduction though, that would be a different story.

 

Realistically if people on 15gs hit 11's and havent really crossed the 500awhp mark 600awhp should pass a ten maybe not a low 10 but should be in that general range, than again its all really in the driver, i bet ray pempena could pass 10's with 600hp

 

My motor came from a '01 Accord Type R which has 220hp@7200rpm and 158tq@5200rpm. I had spun a bearing and needed a new motor anyways. The Type R has more aggresive cams a mild port and polished head but more importantly it came with the closest ratio gear set available and a helical LSD.

I am only running the Walbro 255 with the fuel pressure at 50psi and making over 500whp. I've only dynoed the car at 16psi which it made 487whp and 390tq, but I was able to turn it up to 18psi without knock and maintaining ~11.4 - 11.6 afr's. I'm sure that 2psi is good for at least 13 more hp. It is pushing the limits of the pump as I've only heard of 530-550whp max with it on Honda's. I don't know if it would support that on a 6g72, its a bigger motor with different VE and different fuel requirements.

I'd like to use as many of the turbo components from my Prelude as possible. Instead of selling the car I'll just take what I can use and part out the rest. Hopefully that way I'll get more of a return on my investment. So what do you guys think about running a GT35R on a VR4? I'm worried that it may take alot of boost to reach 600hp and higher octane fuel. It would probably spool quickly though, on my Prelude it hit 18psi by 4300rpm. I can't seem to find a manfold to convert to a single turbo either. Does anyone know where to get one?

 

I can't seem to find a manfold to convert to a single turbo either. Does anyone know where to get one?

Here is a whole single turbo kit found on IPS. http://www.ipsmotorsports.net/product_info.php/cPath/2945_986_3127/products_id/2292

 

The only VR4 that I've ever seen have traction problems is T4 (995AWHP drag car). My blue street car put down put down 578 and I don't have any traction problems. Even in the rain I can go WOT without traction problems. This is on the cheapest 17" tires on the market

We have a customer car right now that put down 633AWHP and that has no traction problems either.

600AWHP will be enough to run 10s on street tires.

 

http://members.cox.net/trevmov/Playin.wmv

That's on the way home from running 138 traps. Four 275/35/18 BFG DR's. The only time my car spins is on a launch.

Pump gas wise my car runs 10.9@130 on 91+meth. I have upgraded heads and cams but stock they still flow really well. I went 138 on stock heads too...just took a few more PSI to get there.

You shouldn't have to upgrade the driveline for 600 crank HP if you get a 94+ car. They have iron transfer cases & strong output shafts compared to the earlier models. When you hit about 660-670 crank HP you'll probably need to think about installing a beef-up plate in the bellhousing to keep it from splitting. After that it'll be golden.

600 crank probably won't get you into the 10's...you're going to need like 660-680 unless you gut the car and make it a a tin can.

 

how much psi were you running on pure 91/stock heads? and how much meth are you injecting?

 

Nice vid! Is that full weight? What awhp? It sort of moves like my Prelude after I do about a 30 second burnout. I really need AWD.

Do you have any launch vids?

 

Oh crap...nevermind. That video wasn't on race gas...that's 91+meth and 22.5-22.7 psi. LOL! :icon23:

I should have looked at the original post before linking to it.
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=374007

It's not full weight. Mine is one of the lightest real street cars on here. Still has A/C, stereo, amp, 6-disc, and no bare metal or anything. Well..if you don't count the roll bar. The lightest raceweight I've ever seen is 3572 lbs. Lotsa lightweight parts...hood, hatch, seats, CF driveshaft, CF sunroof. Yot to mention it's the lightest TT to roll out of the factory.

Launch videos?
3075' altitude
78F
26.6-29.2 psi
11.3-ish AFR's

60': 1.543
330': 4.426
1/8: 6.823@105.13
1000': 8.810
1/4: 10.478@138.05

Video:
http://members.cox.net/trevorlj2/Trev1048.wmv

That's my 3rd best pass ever.

2nd best:
3075' altitude
78F
26.5-28.3 psi
10.8-ish AFR's

60': 1.527
330': 4.416
1/8: 6.781@106.58
1000': 8.755
1/4: 10.421@138.23

Video:
http://members.cox.net/trevmov3/Trev1042.wmv

Best pass:
3075' altitude
73F
27.9-30.7 psi
12.8-ish AFR's

60': 1.579
330': 4.440
1/8: 6.778@107.15
1000': 8.738
1/4: 10.396@138.94

Video:
http://www.technicaltuning.com/gtonemesis/1039.wmv

On 91+meth and stock heads I went 11.17@130.05 at 20.7 psi peak. 14XX cc/min of meth.