based simply on voltage.

Narrowband reads 0-1v... calibration focuses entirely around stoichiometric a/f balance. So the narrowband is pinpoint accurate around stoich... then tapers off the further out it goes. It's range of accuracy as you get below 12 a/f or above 16 a/f won't be good.

Wideband uses a 0-5v range... and is broad in it's range... calibration focus depends on the type of sensor you get... but it definitely has more accuracy throughout the useable A/F range... 7A/F upwards to 19 A/F.

 

that cleared it up pretty well, thank you, but is wideband better than narrowband or is it pretty much depends on what exactly u are trying to do .because i wanna get an AF and im not sure what to get the 80 dollar autometer or get the wideband AEM for like 400dollars.

 

spend that 80 elsewhere like on a logger. The gauges are completely useless. You get blinking lights... that does NOT tell you what your afr is. A logger on the other hand will give you actual numerical voltage which is MUCH more useable (hell someone sniffing your tailpipe and telling you your afr is more usefull that the christmas tree blinking light gauge)

 

so you are saying a data logger is better than a wideband as well?

 

no not at all. Datalogger still uses narrowband readings, but at least with that you can tune to a real number and not a green light 3 clicks below the red one. Get what I'm saying? If you really want to get into tuning then a wideband is necessary, but if you have minimal mods and are doing only minimal tuning then a datalogger should be fine.

 

I don't trust any NB, period

 

what would be the advantage of a wideband over the logger?

 

what would be the advantage of a wideband over the logger?

you need both. A logger logs things that have nothing to do with AFR.

 

I mainly use my narrowband just as a reference to make sure the damn o2's are hooked up and working right (make sure it doesn't go into limp mode). I use the wideband for actual tuning. The advantages of wideband over a logger is that you can see your REAL afr down to an accuracy of +/- .1 . This comes in really handy when trying to peg a certain AFR. But I just went to your site and looked at your mods... it doesn't look like you really need a wideband at your car's current state. However if you ever plan on doing more serious mods which would require you to get a AFC (air/fuel controler) then I would recommend getting the wideband.

 

And Chris is right, you need both a logger and wideband if you want to get into serious tuning.

 

Some people use the narrowband voltages to get a estimate of what their O2s are... you can usually pull these from dataloggers. I'm not crazy enough to try that... but we have plenty of people tuning this way with some success... so I'm not going to dismiss their claims

You CAN find plenty of wideband kits out there for less than 400 bucks. But the nice ones are around there... and you might as well get em since they are nicely packaged. Heck the AEM one i think has the heater IN THE GAUGE.

And as was mentioned before... don't waste your money on an AF gauge that uses the narrowband sensor. It just makes more sense to get a datalogger. I can't imagine anyone that is capable of tuning their cars real-time WHILE THEY ARE DOING WOT RUNS.

Most people (heck I would say ALL) tune AFTERwards... either using log files or using information that's gathered after they see the WOT values.

 

im puttin DR650s on it in august, thats the only reason i was wondering. obviously logger would be first thing i would be getting. this is the main reason i was asking about the wideband and narrow band

 

well if your goin with 650's then you will need a AFC and a wideband. I'd suggest bitting the bullet and getting a nice package. I really like the LM1 unit I have, but not to crazy about the pre-historic gameboy look it has goin on.

 

i was thinking that logger by mirage corp, some1 on this site, dono what palm to use tho. any suggestions?

 

We are selling the AEM 52mm WB kits for $370 shipped. Can't go wrong with that.

 

The Innovate Motorsports LM-1 logs A/F ratio and if you get the RPM kit with it you can log RPM and 4 other 0-5v signals. Basically a wideband and datalogger all in one. If you're intersted in one PM me for a price.

Terry

 

Not one correct reply yet.

The NB sensor is temperature sensitive. That means that the hotter it gets, the leaner it reads. If it weren't for that than it would be perfectly acceptable for tuning.When your EGT goes sky high but you don't know what temp it actually is,or don't know how much correction to use, then you have no way of knowing exactly what your A/F is.
The WB has two advantages, it gives a linear 5v to 0v output AND it is immune to variations in o/p caused by temparature changes.

Steve

 

Mag, I hope you're not inferring that a narrowband oxygen sensor somehow converts temperature into an A/F ratio...

Basically, the difference is that a narrowband sensor is calibrated at a single air/fuel ratio -- in most automotive cases it's 14.7:1. It can measure other air/fuel ratios, but only by calculating the rate at which deviations from stoich are occuring. 1.00v for 0% deviation from 14.7:1, and 0.00v for 100% deviation from stoich. That's part of the reason why the O2's cycle -- it's constantly finding its "limits" so that it can measure deviation with respect to another parameter. I know that sounds complicated, but a narrowband sensor is kinda complicated.

A wideband basically is calibrated at many points, and that data is stored in a computer. In 95red3000gt's case, the computer is the gameboy-looking LM1. But it is just as sensitive to changes in temperature as the narrowband sensors. It's just that oftentimes, you have a computer that's able to compensate for deviations from the calibrated temperature. Also why many widebands have a heater -- they are accurate within a very narrow temperature range -- they aren't any different in that sense than the narrowbands. Also, to put it another way, our O2 sensors are basically a primitive gas chromatograph that's calibrated to measure oxygen content, allowing us to compare what we put into the engine with what comes out of the engine.

Overall, a logger is mandatory. Somewhat-accurate narrowband logs are more valuable than instantaneous narrowband readings from a gauge. Once you've done the best you can with your narrowband tune, spend the money on a wideband. But either way, some sort of logger is mandatory.


- Dmitry

 

A Also, to put it another way, our O2 sensors are basically a primitive gas chromatograph that's calibrated to measure oxygen content, allowing us to compare what we put into the engine with what comes out of the engine.


- Dmitry

A gas chromatograph uses light, a NB oxy sensor is more like a fuel cell, it generates a voltage according to the concentration of hydrocarbons in the exhaust, they detect hydrocarbons NOT oxygen.

Steve

 

AEM wideband explains it right in the beggining of the instructions. It was that narrow band is accurate near 14.7:1 but at temperatures over 800 deg and ratios at WOT it is innacurate as bad as 1.5 AFT off. Wideband is accurate through its entire range within .5 AFR.