I saw a thread on here concerning this I think. Basically because of it's high achohol content anything rubber in the fuel system would need to be replaced, seals, hoses and such. That and getting the compression ratio to the right level and not being able to have the ability to switch between both are all issues on most non-flex fuel cars.

So in conclusion I'm pretty sure it's not worth your while. If your looking at it for enviornmental reasons your better off getting a car with that fuel in mind.

 

I was thinking about it for a cheaper gas and if you NEED to run higher boost to make it work right then it's just that much better cause you could run high boost safely. But I'll do a search for the thread to see what others said.

 

i was also looking into this for a friend and was on the DSM-Link forum*. Aperently there are some people running it with great results, E85 has a very high octane rating (~105 iirc) but it also has a stochiometric (sp?) a/f ratio of about 9:1, therefor you need to be able to flow enough fuel to compensate for this.
Some say that it will degrade rubber and corode aluminum but there are some runing it with stock fuel lines, hoses, and a walbro 255 pump without problems even after 10,000 miles.
I say go for it, as long as you have a good wide band, fuel controler and a large enough fuel sustem, just keep an eye out for problems
*(ill try to get the link to that descussion later)

 

Ok, so say you've got 93 Octane Pump gas and E85 in your neighborhood.

Lets compare some numbers...

E85 is 105 Octane.
Your Gasoline is 93 Octane.

Sounds good right?

But E85 has about 28% Less Energy per Unit than Gasoline.

So in order to get the same horsepower you will have to run significantly higher boost and at a much lower A/F Ratio.



Jason

 

The high level of ethenol can also cause problems with the fuel system --- cars not specifically designed for use of E85 should not be using it. Seal and fuel line failure is supposed to be a real issue.

Jim Berry

 

Whats the price on the E85?

 

Silly question. How does and e85 approved car know if it has e85 or basic unleaded?

 

Ok, so say you've got 93 Octane Pump gas and E85 in your neighborhood.

Lets compare some numbers...

E85 is 105 Octane.
Your Gasoline is 93 Octane.

Sounds good right?

But E85 has about 28% Less Energy per Unit than Gasoline.

So in order to get the same horsepower you will have to run significantly higher boost and at a much lower A/F Ratio.

Jason

you wont need to run more boost, you will simply need to add more fuel, if anything you will make more power because of the cooling effect from the extra liquid

 

Silly question. How does and e85 approved car know if it has e85 or basic unleaded?

Ford uses a sensor, and it can even account for mixtures of E85 and regular. Basically the opposite way our cars can tell when you put regular in the 91 oct. min, using the knock sensor and tables. And Ford flexfuel cars have different part numbers for seals throughout.

Simple answer from the midwest where its been available for years......it sucks....literally. Gas milage will just plain suck.

 

I've been running a 4:1 mix of 91 octane and E85 for a good 6 months without any problems

the local dsm shop near me has been using E85 in a mix and straight and has dyno numbers to back it up, it's good stuff, they swear by it

I would try running a mix before going straight, my car loves the mix but doesn't like running it straight

*edit*
you WILL need a fuel controller of some sort as you have to richen up the mixture a little bit

 

bumping an old thread, but here is a dyno graph from the shop by me that swears by it

this is 111-octane VS E85 same boost, close to 60hp more
http://members.cox.net/moboost/files/657whp.jpg

running dual walbro 255hp pumps, 1600cc injectors and -8 feed line, 55 base fuel pressure and around 90 fuel pressure under boost. injector duty cycle was 80%.

full specs:
http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=990

 

In other news, I saw WalMart is making a play for selling E85 at it's gas stations.

If E85 is such an improvment then let me be the first to welcome our new WalMart E85 overlords.

 

In other news, I saw WalMart is making a play for selling E85 at it's gas stations.

If E85 is such an improvment then let me be the first to welcome our new WalMart E85 overlords.

that would be awesome, it would really give E85 a good shot at a real market share

 

Another bump to the old thread.... I am running E-85 in my EVO making 550 wheel HP out of the 2 liter at 100% duty cycle on 1000 cc injectors and a dual walbro 255 lph pump fuel system.

I am thinking that a dual walbro pump setup with at minimum 560 injectors out of an EVO would make a good start towards converting a 3S over to E-85 at a "mild" performace level. If I remember correctly stock 3S injectors are 390cc/min correct? So for the 30% increase in fuel flow needed for summer blend E-85 you wuold need 510 cc injectors.... so the 560's from an EVO will give you a bit of head room for the performance mods.

Keith

 

I'm still running a mix in my car, it's still running great and letting me run 20lbs of boost daily (versus only 12-13lbs on straight 91)

 

I'm still running a mix in my car, it's still running great and letting me run 20lbs of boost daily (versus only 12-13lbs on straight 91)

So, a 4:1 mix of 91 and E-85.... if the 91 is "pure" gasoline instead of being 10% ethanol that means for every tank full (20 gallons) you run 15 gallons of pure gasoline and 5 gallons of E-85. So your effective ethanol rating would be E-21 (21% ethanol, 79% gasoline) If your local 91 octane is 10% ethanol that raises your effective ethnol rating up to E-29 (29% ethanol 71% gasoline).... this is all assuming "summer blend" E-85 instead of "winter blend" E-85 that is actually E-70.

I am sort of surprised that such a low concentration of ethanol allows you to run 20 psi! Or do I have the ratio backwards and you are running 15 gallons of E-85 for every 5 gallons of 91 octane?

Keith

 

So, a 4:1 mix of 91 and E-85.... if the 91 is "pure" gasoline instead of being 10% ethanol that means for every tank full (20 gallons) you run 15 gallons of pure gasoline and 5 gallons of E-85. So your effective ethanol rating would be E-21 (21% ethanol, 79% gasoline) If your local 91 octane is 10% ethanol that raises your effective ethnol rating up to E-29 (29% ethanol 71% gasoline).... this is all assuming "summer blend" E-85 instead of "winter blend" E-85 that is actually E-70.

I am sort of surprised that such a low concentration of ethanol allows you to run 20 psi! Or do I have the ratio backwards and you are running 15 gallons of E-85 for every 5 gallons of 91 octane?

Keith

nope one gallon of E85 for every 4 gallons of 91, and as far as I know it's pure and not the 10% mix

 

nope one gallon of E85 for every 4 gallons of 91, and as far as I know it's pure and not the 10% mix

I jacked that all up on my math didn't I? I shouldn't try to do math when I am tired. In reality out of a 20 gallon fill up, you would have 16 gallons of pure gasoline, and 4 gallons of E-85 at 85% ethanol, and 15% gasoline. So, 15% of 4 gallons is 0.6 gallons and 85% of 4 gallons is 3.4 gallons. So, your final ratio of gasoline to Ethanol is 16.6 gallons pure gasoline to 3.4 gallons pure ethanol. You "E" rating on that mix is E-17 (17% ethanol, 83% gasoline).

I am surprised at your ability to run such high boost on a low percentage of ethanol.... I wonder what the octane rating of your blend would be?

Keith

 

I jacked that all up on my math didn't I? I shouldn't try to do math when I am tired. In reality out of a 20 gallon fill up, you would have 16 gallons of pure gasoline, and 4 gallons of E-85 at 85% ethanol, and 15% gasoline. So, 15% of 4 gallons is 0.6 gallons and 85% of 4 gallons is 3.4 gallons. So, your final ratio of gasoline to Ethanol is 16.6 gallons pure gasoline to 3.4 gallons pure ethanol. You "E" rating on that mix is E-17 (17% ethanol, 83% gasoline).

I am surprised at your ability to run such high boost on a low percentage of ethanol.... I wonder what the octane rating of your blend would be?

Keith

I think it only sits me around 95-96 I can't remember exactly, but yeah it doesn't make sense why I can run so much boost on such a small mix, I'm not complaining though

here is my dyno graph, this was 18lbs on dieing 13g's and a very conservative tune, 4:1 mix of 93:E85 http://thefuller.googlepages.com/dyno.jpg

 

Could I run straight E85 or a partial E85 mix in my Stealth with the stock fuel system? Will I need to increase the fuel flow? I do have a S-AFCII. Also, I believe E85 burns hotter. I have colder 7 range plugs installed. BTW, the gas in the Houston area is already E10.

OK, another stupid question. Since E85 has a very high octane rating, could it be mixed with 87 octane? If E85 has an octane rating of 105, a 50/50 mix would have an effective octane rating of 96. Right? Premium unleaded around here is 93.

 

Could I run straight E85 or a partial E85 mix in my Stealth with the stock fuel system? Will I need to increase the fuel flow? I do have a S-AFCII. Also, I believe E85 burns hotter. I have colder 7 range plugs installed. BTW, the gas in the Houston area is already E10.

OK, another stupid question. Since E85 has a very high octane rating, could it be mixed with 87 octane? If E85 has an octane rating of 105, a 50/50 mix would have an effective octane rating of 96. Right? Premium unleaded around here is 93.

you won't be pushing enough boost on the stock fuel system to really need it

 

you won't be pushing enough boost on the stock fuel system to really need it

I meant to be a cheap-ass. A 70/30 mix of regular 87 and E85 would give an octane rating of about 92. 87 is about 20-25 cents cheaper per gallon than 93 and E85 is about 60 cents cheaper. It would save about $5-6 per tank or roughly 10%. If the mileage dropoff is less than 10%, say 20 to 18, it might not be a bad idea provided the car will still run normal.

Still, I would need to use the S-AFC to adjust the fuel trim, right?

 

I meant to be a cheap-ass. A 70/30 mix of regular 87 and E85 would give an octane rating of about 92. 87 is about 20-25 cents cheaper per gallon than 93 and E85 is about 60 cents cheaper. It would save about $5-6 per tank or roughly 10%. If the mileage dropoff is less than 10%, say 20 to 18, it might not be a bad idea provided the car will still run normal.

Still, I would need to use the S-AFC to adjust the fuel trim, right?

you do realize going from premium to regular only saves a dollar or two a tank

 

And that the mileage dropoff is more like 30% if using straight e85.

Use regular fuel.

 

And that the mileage dropoff is more like 30% if using straight e85.

Use regular fuel.

I haven't lost that much going to the mix, maybe 1-2mpg