STAY AWAY from Total Seal, we had VERY bad experiences with them. Poor Q.C. and they don't make all their own rings, they outscource from a lot of companies whom ever has what they need at the best price. We had some major issues with impropper bonding processes where the moly was coming off in chunks. We sent them to be tested at an indipendent lab and they determined what we already knew... bad Q.C....Stay clear..

 

OK, I don't have any experience with it (yet). And I havn't ever heard of the "xetreme" rings. I am getting ready to rebuild a 300zxTT motor ( with my friend) and Havn't heard any "good" things about Total seal rings. Most people say that the OEM rings work just fine even on high HP cars. But thats on the Z not a 3000gt so I don't know. Whats the warranty that they offer??

Troop:dodge:

 

Drew,I have built alot of aircooled V.W. motors.I have never had a problem with the performance or longevity of one of these motors.I finally saved up to build my dream motor and used total seal gapless and I rebuilt the top end 3 times because I couldn't get a motor to properly break in.All motors used oil, some were run for 8K before I rebuilt the top end due to oil usage.I kept going back with total seals until I gave up on the project.It was this experience that made me loose interest in aircooled V.W.sI am just getting back into it 5 years later.I didn't have money to spend like I did either.Just my experience.

 

Steve has them in his car. The rings are awesome. Too awesome, actually.. We did a leakdown test just to test it out, and the rings are off the charts.. we were all impressed. The only downside is that they are TOO good if the rest of the engine isn't up to par.

 

Yeah Silverbullet is right. I had them in my 92 ES and although the compression is perfect it still burns just the slightest ammount of oil even after the heads were rebuilt. I am assuming, and this is what Matt at DR told me as well, that because of the high vacuum oil is being sucked into the intake manifold via the PCV and burnt off. It doesn't bother me, this was the gapless second ring set and they seemed to seat fine.

laters,
Gene C.
1992 Stealth RT/TT

:: EDIT :: This may also be the reason that many complain of impropper seating. I know the reason mine burned a little oil was the PVC cause I could see oil in the vacuum tube that ran into the intake manifold. And when I capped off the PVC fittings to test my theory is didn't smoke at all. I'm sure there are problems with them like any other product but at least part of these problems will be with other parts not being able to compensate for the upgraded compression. :: EDIT ::

 

Stay away from Total Seal Rings. You will find that there is more than a 50% chance they will not seat properly and you will burn oil and smoke. Regards Chuck

 

Stay away from Total Seal Rings. You will find that there is more than a 50% chance they will not seat properly and you will burn oil and smoke. Regards Chuck

They seat great. the reason there's a chance of burning oil and blowing smoke is that the vacuum is so great because of the incredible seal you get. Oil gets sucked in through the PCV valve from the intake, and it burns off.

 

TS rings are working good in my car with the Ross pistons. Had the block properly honed by the shop in town that does all the block work for the Mitsu dealers and it never smoked, not even during break-in. Compression within 3 psi across all cylinders (I don't recall what the exact numbers were though, 160's or so).

So far, no reason for me to complain.

 

So it sounds like a crap shoot.Feel lucky?BTW on the air cooled VW there is no pcv valve and the piston and cyl were brand new and honed to the correct specs.I had rebuilt junk yard motors that I replaced the rings in with stock rings that held better compression then total seals.Also one of those motors made it around the country 3 times and logged almost 200K before it needed another top end.I would never put them in anything I wanted to last.You may have descent luck.

 

I won't ever use total seal rings again, for as long as I live on this earth, barring their being totally changed in design/materials/production.
They haven't sealed for ME. I have blasted the moly out of the top rings twice; my 3rd time around now the ring seal never came in on several cylinders, and my Krank Vent is on SUPER duty trying to vent all the excess blowby, my dipstick pops out sometimes...
The stock rings worked great until the piston cracked.

I've used Childs & Albert gapless rings on my Pontiac 407 cube engine with nitrous, and leakdown was between 0.2 and 1%, averaged about 0.6%. That engine used NOS, and went 131+mph quartermiles WITHOUT the NOS...and I shifted at 8000rpm...and the moly never blasted out of the top rings.

Sealed Power also is a good company but not gapless; but they seal up fine, and have for me. Strange how Total Seal rings somehow are so "good" they claim to need a "proper" cylinder hone process whenever their crappy rings don't seal as well as a regular GAPPED ring, even with the GAPLESS advantage!

C&A make rings for us now I believe; try them first. Sealed Power 2nd. Maybe Total Seal if "you feel Lucky", or maybe they work on low power low boost cars...just by chance, a FEW of their engines would seal up you'd think, but when the NUMBER of DSMers, 3S people like GTPro, Charles Theiss, maybe me etc say don't...either believe, or...
"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions!"
- Pulp Fiction (1994)

Maybe I'll have to send Total Seal a complaint, so forever more they will NEVER be able to LIE again with that "the only complaints they've had were from people that didn't properly hone the cylinders or use a dry lubricant on the cyls to break the rings in" shit.
of course, they could have a TRILLION complaints, they could still claim the same shit because...a TRILLION times, the hone job was bad! I think I almost ENJOY it when people see this stuff and still buy their rings because in their judgement of all the evidence they must still be good.

I sure have NEVER seen ANY years-long threads, controversy and conversations about how BAD Childs&Albert or Sealed Power rings are. hmm, odd.
All IMO. Your results may vary. Still, a bell-curve of satisfaction skewed SO far to the negative statistically suggests less chance of success...

 

Jack's certainly got a point. They seem to work for some people, for others they never work right. If I was in a position where I had to choose again, I probably wouldn't go the Total Seal route just because of the apparant failure rate.

Their quality control must be really a crap-shoot, or they are doing something funky with the rings for us.

I dunno. I guess I have my fingers crossed that mine will hold. I'm not planning on rebuiding the motor again unless circumstances force me to do so.

 

I have always heard more bad than good, and not with just our cars. Hell, I used Federal Mogul this last rebuild on my Wisecos and they are doing great.

 

I'm most concerned with the flaking Moly problem than the non-seating problem. I don't think a poorly applied Moly coating could hold up to that much N2O.

I already have a new set of stock rings, but I don't know how well they'll like a 120-150 shot of N20 on a 10:1 CR engine. I can either stick with them, or try C&A or Sealed Power. I'll look into them.

I'll also forward this link to a Total Seal rep and see what they have to say about the posts. I, like many, am lured by the 0% leakdown claims, but it just doesn't sound like it's worth it with all the claimed problems.

 

My 2 Cents

I am currently running total seal rings. I used the dry powder (Quick Seat) to seat my rings in. I have about 5k miles and they make great power. I keep my fingers crossed everytime I hit the key. I would be interested to see what total seal reps have to say. Although they always seem to cover their A$$.