I've encountered the same type of problem on my vr4 as well.

It began to happen after installing my s15g turbos and cc fmic. It was so bad that the car was almost undrivable. You had to either drive WOT all the time or it would just surge throughout.

The first thing I did was return the intercooler piping to stock. This helped but did not solve the problem. The car continued to surge in many situations but wasn't as bad. You could drive around with no load and the turbos wouldn't *always* surge. If you got caught in a high gear with low load and tried to boost it would surge everytime. It was especially annoying on the highway trying to drive in 5th at half throttle and having the turbos just surge all over the place.

Then, I decided to backtrack and take everything apart that I just installed. I found that I had left a slight gap between my turbine/02 housing and the area around the egr was cracked. These were hard to find because it didn't make any noise and you couldn't actually see the gap. I went old school and hooked a leaf blower up to my tailpipes to 'pressurize' the back half of the exhaust system to find the leak lol

After fixing the leaks, the car is very drivable. I haven't any surging since then. However, I haven't driven the car nearly as much. I drove it for about a month and a half this summer and it was fine.

I highly doubt any of this will apply but its worth it to check out your entire exhaust and intake system if you haven't alrdy. I had alrdy sold my cc fmic kit prior to finding the exhaust leaks so I can't really say if thats the problem.

I'm sure you've read Jeff's thread on this and have tried out the possible solutions.

Good luck

 

Changing your IC isn't going to do anything. If you've been powering through the surge your turbos will be dead very soon, if they aren't already. Should be seeing that super duper cool SpyHunter smoke screen effect real soon....

The Garrett quote is all you need to know.

Tip: when you hear it, let off the damn gas, don't try to power through it. You can usually let off all the way and then go WOT right after with no surge. It's that abrupt transition from partial throttle to WOT that will get you.

Jeremy

 

I've encountered the same type of problem on my vr4 as well.

It began to happen after installing my s15g turbos and cc fmic. It was so bad that the car was almost undrivable. You had to either drive WOT all the time or it would just surge throughout.

The first thing I did was return the intercooler piping to stock. This helped but did not solve the problem. The car continued to surge in many situations but wasn't as bad. You could drive around with no load and the turbos wouldn't *always* surge. If you got caught in a high gear with low load and tried to boost it would surge everytime. It was especially annoying on the highway trying to drive in 5th at half throttle and having the turbos just surge all over the place.

Then, I decided to backtrack and take everything apart that I just installed. I found that I had left a slight gap between my turbine/02 housing and the area around the egr was cracked. These were hard to find because it didn't make any noise and you couldn't actually see the gap. I went old school and hooked a leaf blower up to my tailpipes to 'pressurize' the back half of the exhaust system to find the leak lol

After fixing the leaks, the car is very drivable. I haven't any surging since then. However, I haven't driven the car nearly as much. I drove it for about a month and a half this summer and it was fine.

I highly doubt any of this will apply but its worth it to check out your entire exhaust and intake system if you haven't alrdy. I had alrdy sold my cc fmic kit prior to finding the exhaust leaks so I can't really say if thats the problem.

I'm sure you've read Jeff's thread on this and have tried out the possible solutions.

Good luck

thanks, so a second victom of CCA. You put on s15g's? those TD04's right? if so then we cant blame any of this on YOUR turbos.
but then you just changed back to stock pipes while using the CC intercooler? If so then that backs up my 'pipes too big' theory. what could it be about this kit that causes this???

I will definatly check my exaust for leaks. good idea.

I have read Jeffs thread(s) on this subject many times, and even bought an HKS BOV with the idea of modifying it as he says 'fixed' his problems. I just have doubts that will help me. Something I just read in a magazine said something about using two BOV to cure CS. This is something I have thought about, mabey one BOV near each turbo? wonder if it would work having the BOV on the wrong side of the IC.

thanks for the advice!!

 

Changing your IC isn't going to do anything. If you've been powering through the surge your turbos will be dead very soon, if they aren't already. Should be seeing that super duper cool SpyHunter smoke screen effect real soon....

The Garrett quote is all you need to know.

Tip: when you hear it, let off the damn gas, don't try to power through it. You can usually let off all the way and then go WOT right after with no surge. It's that abrupt transition from partial throttle to WOT that will get you.

Jeremy

Jeremy, I know you had a similar problem with yours, I think you adjusted your BOV to fix. But I dont think you understand how unavoidable this is for me. Say I am driving like a grandma in second with lots of vac (say 1/2 vac of idle) then shift to third while staying in vac, I can clearly hear air rushing out both my air filters. I dont think any BOV is going to open with that slight of a change in pressure (mabey my electronic BOV* Patent Pending )

thanks for your advice.

Someone told me that shaft play is normal on these turbos since they float on a film of oil and that if they arent smoking then nothing is wrong with them

 

...The Garrett quote is all you need to know...

"Surge is most commonly experienced when one of two situations exist. The first and most damaging is surge under load. It can be an indication that your compressor is too large."

I hope your not refering to that part b/c arent your turbos bigger than mine?

I wonder if having huge IC pipes can make the compressor 'seem' too large?

 

I was able to adjust the BOV and get most of the surge out on the DR-1000's but it was still there. With my 3076R's there is no surge and they are larger than the 1000's.

As long as they're not smoking they're still OK. But if you've got that much shaft play it's only a matter of time. Been there done that.

Jeremy

 

No they don't, it's your imagination.

 

You said you were surging with 9b's.......which technically is pretty much impossible. What is possible is the common "pressure pulse", people get it with hardpipe kits or FMIC. There is a thread on the conditions that must be met to cause it and possible cures.

 

I would not blame intercooler pipes as being too large AT ALL. It doesn't make any sense and isn't the real cause of the problem. Jeff97VR4's discussion about part-throttle surging may apply in this case, which is I think caused by the front and rear turbos "fighting" each other. A balance tube such as Jeff used could fix the problem entirely.

Try loosening your BOV too. People often crank them down too tightly, mistakenly believing it is necssary to run high boost. You only need the BOV tight enough to ensure that it is closed at idle. If you run speed-density or blow-through, it makes sense to use an air filter ON the BOV so that high vacuum (say, under decel) won't cause the engine to ingest particles if it opens.

 

Multiades, I have a balance tube as well as the HKS SSQ BOV (not adjustable) per Jeff's sugestions. I havent modified the BOV like Jeff did yet.

 

hunh? the HKS SSQ BOV is adjustable via the nut on the back of it. out of the box mine was too tight and it would surge when I let off the gas abruptly. i had to loosen it so that it would blow off smoothly

 

I will have to look at it again.

 

WTF is going on here!!! My BOV

 

it should have a bolt in the back of it, maybe that's an old version ??

 

SSQ knockoff!!

 

Here's the question.

Are you talking about surge happening when you go ONTO the throttle, or when the throttle plate is closing after a shift or letoff and the bov stutters?

When you get it when you are ON the throttle and it sounds like water dripping on a hot stove and it goes schooo schooo schooo and it sounds like it's alternating between the turbos that's compressor surge/stall and is INCREDIBLY bad for the turbos.

THis happens when you're to the left of the surge line because the turbos are trying to produce a boost level at too low of a CFM....

Surge also happens because of the BOV, but not ON the throttle. If your BOV is too tight it will flutter and cause the turbos to try and produce a boost level that they cannot support at such a low cfm (the throttle plate is closed and they are trying to pressurize the IC pipes).

If the shaft speed of the turbo isn't up to speed it cannot support such a low CFM and boost.

It WILL destroy the turbos if it is the surge while you're ON the throttle. Your thrust bearing will get OWNED and you will feel excessive in/out play of the turbo and very little side to side.

 

SSQ knockoff!!

Thats what I was afraid of

Here's the question.

Are you talking about surge happening when you go ONTO the throttle, or when the throttle plate is closing after a shift or letoff and the bov stutters?...

sadly both

 

from further investigation I think my BOV is a real HKS just mabey an older (or newer) version without the adjustment nut.

trying to find the right BOV, but still I dont think this has anything to do with the BOV.

Simple question for everybody. Who can drive there car real easy/slow, with no boost and have there BOV open? I dont think they are soposed to. that is where I am having this problem mainly.

I am still leaning more tward the IC/pipes b/c that is the only thing different on my car than other DRx00 daily driven cars. Mabey my turbos just dont get along with my FMIC.
wonder if I could rig up some pipes to bypass the FMIC (turbos strait to TB) just for a test?

 

Well, my bov (1g dsm) doubles as a cbv and sucks when I tell it to if that's what you're asking..?
Deeeeee-oooooooooooooh

As for your surge problem it's because of the crappy FMIC you have? Somewhere along the way you have a serious blockage or crimp, or something like that where the air is pressurizing quickly and not being able to go anywhere, hitting a wall basically, so it gets backed up and your turbo suddenly shoots over to the left of the map because its pressurizing air that isn't going anywhere.

 

...
As for your surge problem it's because of the crappy FMIC you have? Somewhere along the way you have a serious blockage or crimp, or something like that where the air is pressurizing quickly and not being able to go anywhere, hitting a wall basically, so it gets backed up and your turbo suddenly shoots over to the left of the map because its pressurizing air that isn't going anywhere.

as much as it pains me to believe that ,b/c it is the most beautiful FMIC I have ever seen, that makes a lot of sence to me.
Now, should I
(1) try to measure the boost at the turbos v/s boost at the TB or...
(2) try to bypass the FMIC all together to see if that helps?
Whats eaisier?

who has a DAILY DRIVEN DRx00 car that has no problem with this? and what kinda IC are they using?

 

as much as it pains me to believe that ,b/c it is the most beautiful FMIC I have ever seen, that makes a lot of sence to me.
Now, should I
(1) try to measure the boost at the turbos v/s boost at the TB or...
(2) try to bypass the FMIC all together to see if that helps?
Whats eaisier?

who has a DAILY DRIVEN DRx00 car that has no problem with this? and what kinda IC are they using?

Well, you'd have to try and find where the pressure blockage is, I really have no idea how you could test that besides taking everything apart piece by piece and pumping air through it. If I had to guess I'd say it's the endtanks of the frontmount, as that seems the most likely place a block could be without you noticing it during the installation.

Uhm, you could try and bypass the FMIC, but that would be horribly bad and you might melt something or explode. Which wouldn't really help the problem any.
I've heard this kind of problem from a lot of people that got the CC fmic, I'm assuming (yes, assume) that because that many people are having similar problems that it is the intercooler itself to blame, and not the individual setups. It's possible that is not the case, and its a mere coincidence, but it's worth looking into since you're having that problem, so check out your front mount and see if everything is kosher.

 

thanks man!! finaly someone thinking outside the box
mabey I should just pick up an Ebay special?
I have heard only good things from 3SI peeps that have an Ebay FMIC.

 

this would be interesting!!!

the core is 24x12x4 but the air would have to go thru the 24 part twice... so that would be 48" of intercooler.
plus the IC pipes wouldnt need to be as long
.
what is important when buying an IC?
Is bar n' plate good?
is "2~5psi@35psi; 0.2~0.5psi@15psi" good?
would this core be able to handle the same power as a normal "in one side out the other" core of the same dim?

 

That looks like a pretty crappy IC...
Before you get all creditcard happy and start shopping for a new one make sure yours is the problem lol. Try taking off your bov, just cap that hose off so you have a leak free system and try to get it to surge the way you described it. Be VERY VERY careful without the BOV on you can serriously fuck over your turbos by dropping off the throttle under boost, you will serriously explode those turbos, so be careful to make sure nothing explodes.

 

I already did that and yes at simi light throttle changes I still hear air rushing out my filters.