lol, comparing tech on $40k car and $600k car

 

I have that month subscripton. The active spoiler raises about 30 degree when the speedometer hits 51mph. The raise angle applies more downforce to the rear of the car which in turns help the car to be more stable at higher speed.

Black94VR4

 

gimmicks

Mitsu did it to help sell the car
Ferrari did it because they can

 

Ferrari's new $65,000 Enzo supercar sports electonically controlled airfoils above and below the car for managing downforce at speed.

$65,000!!! Where can I find one? Damn, that's a hell of a bargain!

 

I recall a thread where some russian guy (?) did some testing of the active aero system and it does indeed give negative down force down force when it's engauged. I'm to lazy to search for it though .

 

Here is the sight.....the Russian guys name is Glenn. I am still searching for the numbers though. This should entertain you until I find them.

Glenn's 3000GT VR-4

 

Ok all I have so far is that the spoiler angles 14 degrees. I have found that number at two sources.......still looking for downforce numbers

 

website:
http://autoreview.ru/new_site/year2000/n19/m3000/mits1.htm
thread with translation:
http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/sh...read.php?threadid=80438&perpage=15&highlight=active aero downforce&pagenumber=1

 

Well I cant find the downforce numbers anywhere. I dont even know if it has been tested and published besides the numbers that this Russian guy Glenn came up with in an independant study. The only numbers he brings to the table is "Cx=.390" which I am unsure of what value that equation has. I tried to look up what Cx is but I couldnt fidn a measurment that matched it.

 

Ummm yeah

That price was just a couple 100,000 dollars off

I put edited my post. Thanks for the info guys...I am still curious about whether it was a gimmick or provided practical application..

Matt

 

Well if you go to the link I put a couple posts back "Glenns 3000GT VR-4" page you will see that Glenn did actually find that the active aero was not just a gimmick and did have some downforce value. The only thing is that it doesnt create a whole lot of downforce like the Ferrari's Enzo but I wouldnt complain too much since the 3000GT is $618,000 less brand new if you were to purchase a 1991 VR-4 in 91.

In the picture....the top left car is 90mph with active aero OFF and the bottom left car is 125mph with active aero OFF.

The top right car is 90 with active aero ON and the bottom left is 125 with active aero ON.

Notice that with aero OFF the faster you go the more "lift" is created in the rear of the car while with the aero on there is a fair amount of downforce keeping those tires pressed to the road where you want them. When I did 183 in my 3000GT you BETTER BELIEVE I had my aero ON!

 

Here is the pic......

 

Let's see .... How much downforce does a 3800 lb car need? I mean say to a 3000 lb Ferrari?

Despite Glenn's pretty pictures, magazine top-speed tests indicate that no effective downforce is generated by the 3000GT aero-gimmicks. Top speed was the same (averaged both directions) with and without active-aero gimmicks engaged. Since speed was the same, there was no difference in drag. No difference in drag, no change in downforce. So they say.

 

Hey Jeff,
Looooong Time, No Talk. Well I guess Glenn didnt know what the hell he was doing then with his wind tunnel test. This is also probably a god explantaion why I couldnt find any numbers on the downforce ANYWHERE on the net!

Oh and Jeff I am flying out to Colorado(Denver) tomorrow. How is the weather and where in CO do you live? If its ok with you, I would love to take a look at that stealth while I am out there if you arent to far!

 

So the general consensus is that the active aero is just a look good goodie?

Any more proof?

 

I know that an old thread, but you guys wrong..

FIrst of all, I know russian, and the car was tested in russia, by russian Auto magazine. It was russian dealership's car.

And I don't think that top speed has even 0.001 accuracy as wind tunnel test..

 

Let's see .... How much downforce does a 3800 lb car need? I mean say to a 3000 lb Ferrari?

Despite Glenn's pretty pictures, magazine top-speed tests indicate that no effective downforce is generated by the 3000GT aero-gimmicks. Top speed was the same (averaged both directions) with and without active-aero gimmicks engaged. Since speed was the same, there was no difference in drag. No difference in drag, no change in downforce. So they say.

well if active aero really doesnt do much, i might as well take it off. i think mine is stuck in the "up" position anyways.

maybe i will just take it off and save me some weight.

 

I know that an old thread, but you guys wrong..

FIrst of all, I know russian, and the car was tested in russia, by russian Auto magazine. It was russian dealership's car.

And I don't think that top speed has even 0.001 accuracy as wind tunnel test..

Really!?!

You will find the following statement in various flavors in many references regarding aerodynamics: "When downforce is produced, then drag increases as well." And when drag increases, more power is needed to maintain a particular speed. Because drag (and downforce) increase with the square of the wind speed, and because the maximum power output for a particular engine in a short time period is nearly constant, top-speed tests are a very effective means to test for *real* drag and downforce changes.

The last page of the following article

http://www.stealth316.com/2-sci94vr4.htm

describes SCI's top-speed tests. No difference in top speed with active-aero on or off means no change in drag and no change in downforce.

Active aero is a gimmick. Plain and simple.

 

and were they using our highly accurate speedomoeter for those tests?

 

I want to ask Vr4 owners what they feel it does?

In that article in russian magazine they were saying with AA on car feels a lot more stable with less wabling at 200 kmph..

I have Mitsubishi Ad in 1990 magazine and it says something like:
"Active Aero provides additional stability at high speeds without additional drag"

Those guys in russian article compiled a table (based on wind tunnel tests)

AA...............................................OFF.............ON
----------------------------------------------------------
Surface of "midel" (russn) M^2 2,009........2,029
Front resistance force H................626.........632
Coeff. of aerodyn. resistance Cx..0.39.......0.389
Lifting force H..................................293........0
"Rollover" moment Hm.....................-122....116



So what they tested in SCI just two runs of max speed?
I read SCI and like it very much, but in that article they got wrong numbers after the test..
The reason probably because change in drag is minimal if any,
but shape of car changes and drag stays the same but air flow is altered..

I'm not an expert, and I know you are one of the most dedicated people here to 3S!

But it's still hard to compare 2 top speed tests with proffesional data of wind tunnel testing..

and to belive that lowering something under the car 2" and raising wing 14 degrees will not change anything..

I know that changing tires from 205 to 225 increases drag, and that is just 2 cm difference..

I'm trying to find any other magazine who tested active aero..

Arseny

p.s. Jeff what your current project?

 

I'm surprised that more aero data has not come forth from Mitsu sources. Is this aero feature so 'classified' that data cannot be released?

The Enzo smoothly raises/descends and holds its setting according to airflow allowing a greater range of downforce adjustment. Whereas we all know the aero on our cars is either on or off.

I want to ask Vr4 owners what they feel it does?

Though the SL and Base wings are wider than the TT's, its wide enough to prevent the Twin Turbo from catching an unpredictable gust from slipping under the car and making it airborne at 100+ mph.

and to belive that lowering something under the car 2" and raising wing 14 degrees will not change anything..

This is the parth where I wish we had a resident astrophysicist. At 130mph and greater, enough wind flowing under the 3000GT at the right instance could lift the front end, creating more of a degree of angle, allowing more mass of the car to catch a 130mph+ wall of wind to flip it up and over. When you are altering about 2" and 14 degrees angle of foil and air dam, its significant to the amount of air flowing over and under a car. What do you think 14 degrees of rudder trim would do to a 747 as it flies through the air at its slowest speed for a landing?

Everybody has made some great illustrations, but Mitsu data would hold more wieght. Heck, much money is spent on dynos....anybody got a wind tunnel?

 

Active Aero works GREAT!

I live in Amish/Mennonite country and most people don't realize that Mennonites do not give up cars,sex and electricity until after they officially join the church (21 or when they get married I think)

I wait until I see car full of farmers with black hats and coveralls behind me at a stop light. When only the driver is looking I flip my rear wing up and down. The driver usually goes nuts and points to my car and everyone looks. I don't flip the wing again and the driver in the other car usually gets animated because no-one believes him.
I LOVE doing that!

If you think Active Aero does something cover the light on the dash, flip the rear view mirror and try to tell if it is on of off. I bet you can't guess correctly more than 50% of the time

I plan on hotwiring my active aero this summers so it is completely manually controlled and the front and back can be controlled separately. Then I am going to fix my front air damn in the up position and connect the active aero to intakes for cooling ducts for front brakes. Brake cooling duct intakes will normally get ripped off during street driving so you have to replace them when you go to the track. I am hoping I will be able to flip a switch and drop the cooling duct down.

Cool Idea I hope I get around to making it work before NG03

 

Yeah, I don't know why mitsubishi didn't release more info on this..
Maybe we should contact Mitsu directly to find out?
Maybe that info is out there..