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Aghhhh
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Discussion Starter #1
I've been trying to figure in my mind why it is that you can have a single turbo Buick V6, and a single turbo LS1 V8, but no one can seem to figure out a single turbo 6G72 without using acres of piping. The answer? No one has bothered to try. We've been told singls are pointless and we've been told it's impossible to run it off one bank of cylinders (it is, but we can get around it) But aside from that one out in cali, and Eric Ks single turbo base, has anyone actually tried to do a production ready single? NO.

Please refer to the diagram: (it's crude, but it works. Let's not nitpick my drawing and instead let's talk turbos :))



On both of the domestic engines, the turbo is mounted to a single, custom exhaust manifold. The opposite manifold is left untouched. The two banks are connected via a crossover pipe that runs under the engine. From there, a downpipe runs off the turbo and out the rear as you would expect.

You'd think this wouldn't work, but keep in mind that the Turbo Buicks were running 9s before our cars were even a sketch on a napkin.

Why is it so difficult for someone to fab a custom front manifold, downpipe, and intake pipes and build a freakin kit? DN performance has proven they can make any pipe, there's tons of TD05 DSM turbos on the market CHEAP and intercoolers are pretty easy to come by. Before anyone says there's not room, look for a picture of an LS1 engine bay and then tell me there's no room in an NA 3S, or a TT 3S with the IC pipes cleared out.

Let's hear your technical thoughts on this. If you don't have something to relate to the topic at hand, please refrain from posting.
 

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that looks like a triple by pass heart surgery diagram...

hey vince, car tech'ed yet? is PING goin too?
 

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Only Tonic is Chronic
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There is a mental block in the performance parts industry, that is telling them that 2 is better then 1 (2 turbos vs 1 turbo) and that is the problem. The physical logistics are not as difficult as they are thought to be..we have seen a single turbo setup on these cars. The issue is Money and demand/supply.
The Buick V6 and the LS1 are great examples of "v" technology that implements a single turbo setup.

Can it be done..Sure, we haev seen that already. Can it be done for Cheap...maybe , but the first few people to do it are gonna have to shell out some $$$ and may not see a good functioning example for a long time.

Just my .02$
 

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Aghhhh
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Discussion Starter #5
There is a mental block in the performance parts industry, that is telling them that 2 is better then 1 (2 turbos vs 1 turbo) and that is the problem.
Yeah....why sell me one turbo and one manifold for $2600 when you can sell me two turbos and two manifolds for $4000.
 

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Premium Member
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on paper this works.. actualy in an NA (w/fed emmisions) this would work fairly EASILY i think.. theres tons of room to play with on that side of the engine.. relocate the coolant overflow VIA 99 model tank, and you got a LOT of room to work.. i wish i had some fundage or id do this.. maybe ill donate my car to don for the winter and give him this drawing..

youre telling me that the headers are connected to EACHOTHER? hmm. how does this work? i understand turbos.. but how will the exhaust flow be evenly matched?
i think we should get EXACT diagrams of the GN set up and do it that way..
GATE! YOU THA MAN..
 

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Please excuse me for being ignorant, I'm just trying to learn:D

But wouldn't all that piping create a lot of lag in itself? Add that to an already lagy single turbo, wouldn't that create an insanely lagy setup?? What is the advantage to this setup over a twin setup?
Couldn't you just get 2 smaller turbos that will flow the same, but lag less, but it would cost a bit more but you will have less lag... Is my thinking cap is on right or is it just totally out there??:)

*EDIT* also, what is stopping the exhaust flow from flowing into each other instead into the turbo??:confused:
 

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fuck it make a plan parts and a price and i'll work two jobs to fucking do it i'm sick of teh n'as having shit for perfoamnce and civics having it!
 

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Kaji said:
fuck it make a plan parts and a price and i'll work two jobs to fucking do it i'm sick of teh n'as having shit for perfoamnce and civics having it!
YEAH!!
dammit. i want to go fast.
GATE.. how would the intercooler come into play? im stumped as to how it would work... more drawings.. btw.. they are pretty good.. ;)
 

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OG *** Member
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Front turbo location looks good, and you could possible mount the turbo in the rear pre-cat position. Either way, tie it together under the engine. I know a lot of people want to stick the turbo over where the intake is, but I think that's a bunch of piping you don't need. If you put the turbo in the front turbo location you'd have less then 10" of piping to the FMIC and about 2 bends. Anyone know whether or not different length headers leading to a single collector would hurt performance? I've heard no and no so far.
 

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Aghhhh
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Discussion Starter #11
As far as lag goes, think about it for a second. You're still spinning the same mass of metal with the same amount of exhaust gas. I'm sure the lag would be a little different, but I doubt it would really be significant.

I know the exhaust gas thing seems confusing, but obviously it works pretty good on the Buicks and LS1s :)
 

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I've been thinking about this for the N.A. car for awhile.Build a custom d.p. and put the turbo about 6in. behind where they merge into one.There is a ton of room between the fire wall and engine to run piping or even locate the turbo there.Turbo city has some good ideas and its really not as complicated as it sounds.For the NA. Turbo,wastegate set at 7lbs.1 vr-4 intercooler,360 injectors,fule pump,S.A.F.C.,downpipe,piping,maybe a m.s.d..
 

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Only Tonic is Chronic
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The problem w/ the NA DOHC cars is compression. This would work great for a TT engine, but I dont know how cost effective it would be if you could only run 6psi or so.
 

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Gatecrasher said:
As far as lag goes, think about it for a second. You're still spinning the same mass of metal with the same amount of exhaust gas. I'm sure the lag would be a little different, but I doubt it would really be significant.
Yes, but isn't the more bends and longer piping going to result in exahust gases having more turbulance, which would result in the exhuast gases loosing velocity, which would then require more pressure to turn the turbine thus increasing lag?
Isn't that the reason why they port polish intake manifolds and cyclinder heads..to reduce turbulance and increase air flow.
 

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arent the first gen wastegates set at 6psi? thats what i was told..
this would be great for the NA. we could run boost without a boost controller.. (-450 bucks) it would just rely on wastegate pressure.. MMM i like that idea..
it realy doesnt seem that difficult.. how come noone has tried this?
im going to try to look into it some more over the winter..
 

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Just Bring It
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I don't know if you can do this but, and I doubt there is the space for this, but you can look at it

I would think get NA Headers and Down pipe, Reverse the downpipe so the Exhaust end of the Down pipe faces the front of the Car, then Bend or Cut the Exit end of the Downpipe and tunnel it into a single turbo.

OR Get NA headers, and custom a downpipe which Exits toward the front or side, of the car, then pipes to the turbo. then Pipe from the Turbo back to the exhaust.

The main problem I see with these are the amounts of Hard 90s it would take to pipe this.
 

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Hail to the King, Baby
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Compression shouldn't be a problem for the NA's, just change the pistons/rods. I think however that there would be some pretty big changes in engine management that wouldn't be able to be solved by the stock ecu, there'd need to be some stand alone system managing timing/fuel etc. and that could get very expensive. This will most likely be an adventure for some pretty rich (or crazy) VR4 owners.

And while we're on the crazy ideas path, how about a RWD conversion for the NA's (or VR4s)? Sure it'd be difficult, but it would solve some of the traction problems that hinder development of big power non-VR4's (and imagine the weight savings!)
 

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GCtech Motorsports
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OK PEOPLE

Enough of this SINGLE TURBO CANT BE DONE THING ok
It can be done the exhaust pipes wont cause lag if u do your homework by calculating the total amount of cfm produce at atmosphere by the power plant and then get the pipe size needed to fit the specifications.
But unless u are planning to produce well over 700HP DO NOT GO SINGLE TURBO is not worth it ... single turbo should be use for racing applications only!!!
I might do one of this setups (maybe)
but for now im gonna stick with my twin T66 100shot progresive nitrous setup...
And I dont want to be a dick but Im not showing this setup till IRDC finals @ palmdale............

later
Gilbert
GtConcepts

but I''ll be running the [email protected] carlsbad on the 3000gt meeting in SanDiego......................
 

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Sc300-2jzgte coming soon
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im definitly interested in this keep us updated
 
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