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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, before anybody gets too upset, there's al ittle discussion going on in the "war stories" section about this topic. I thought I'd bring it over here to hopefully get some more input and theories on the subject.
The question is, why has it taken the 3s so long to achieve high 10 second quarters from 3 cars, when all of it's brethren (300zx, supra and rx7) have so many consistantly running 8-9 second quarters and have for YEARS?? The cars hp figures and performance are all very similar from the factory. All 4 cars came out within a few years of each other, the 3s even before the rx7 and supra. They all cost about the same from the factory. Yet there are only 2 cars that consistantly run 10's and they are VERY high 10's at that.
Some of the theories are 1.) aftermarket support: Although the rx7, supra, and z came about in the 80's, they are so far from their latest twin turbo version that you can't even call them the same car. Whatever aftermarket support they had could not be piggybacked onto the newer models. There are plenty of shops that have been in existance for a looooooong time with $$$$ and resources to have made this happen by now. Even most of the supra shops offer aftermarket support to the 3s and much of the aftermarket is fairly universal.
2.) The 3s attracts a different market share: Perhaps, but not enough to explain the enormous gap between the other cars.
3.) The platform: twin turbo, 320hp from the factory?? AWD, Skyline doesn't seem to mind.
All in all almost every car imagineable has examples of cars running 9-10 second quarters. Prelude, ford focus, neon, metro, all the aforementioned, civics, dsm's.
This of course is not to say the 3s doesn't absolutely excel at what is was made for. Fairly fast, comfortable, safe, rather inexpensive to run 11's and awesome looking.
But does anyone else find it the least bit curious that it has been passed up by all of it's brethren and almost any other car at the track??
 

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The answer is very simple. How many people do you see trying??? It's not the aftermarket, it's not the cars; it's the owners. It would be a lot different if everybody and there mom was trying to run 10's or better and couldn't.
 

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dono, but some of it could be that these other cars had more potential out of the box then our cars did. so people noticed them quicker and it caught on. our puny turbos and injectors are horrible. maybe this spurred eveyone to get one and this let them grow into what they are today. people are finally realizing now that a 3000 can be made to go fast cheaper than you think. all of the dsm turbos etc.
 

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it bothers me that theres focuses (foci) and fwd 4 bangers the 10/9s and we have barely a few solid 3s's in the 10s and we have 2 more cylinders, 1 more turbo, awd (good/bad) and a lot cooler car :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Powelsound said:
The answer is very simple. How many people do you see trying??? It's not the aftermarket, it's not the cars; it's the owners. It would be a lot different if everybody and there mom was trying to run 10's or better and couldn't.
Over the years, a ton. Jack T has been trying to break his own record for years. How many 368's have you seen go out and owners not being able to wait for the next "dsm" shootout to break records. GTPRO's been working on their project for what, 2 years now. It didn't take the ford foucs 2 years to run 10's from it's inception. MR2turbo, AMahoser, IPO, Black94VR4 to name a few. GTPRO, Dynamic, AAM have not been able to do what dodge neons and chevy cavaliers have done in less time?? And I don't think anybody can say THEY aren't trying.
SOrry, not buying that for a second. You saying there's more people trying to get a dodge neon, chevy cavalier and geo metro into the 9's???
Obviously I don't have the answer but I don't think that is it either. I see people trying every day on this board.
Late
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
SM-4 said:
it bothers me that theres focuses (foci) and fwd 4 bangers the 10/9s and we have barely a few solid 3s's in the 10s and we have 2 more cylinders, 1 more turbo, awd (good/bad) and a lot cooler car :cool:
No doubt, think about it. 320hp, twin turbo charged, twin intercooled, AWD badass looking beast from the factory. Yet there are freaking ford focuses and geo metros that have advanced past it at the track. WTF????:confused:
 

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Two words..... Heavy Pig. You can't really compare it to a metro because the metro requires so much less power realtive to its weight. All the cars you see that weight as much as ours have v8's in them.

Engine size + weight = disadvantage for us I think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Master X said:
Two words..... Heavy Pig.
Engine size + weight = disadvantage for us I think.
I think that's pretty legit. Seems people have tried and tried to produce more power only to break things. Trevor seems to be the only guy to really put his car on a diet and look at his results at fairly low boost with tiny ass 15G turbos.
 

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Weight is a big issue... think about it, if the puma vr4 had all the mods Mike has, it would be an easy 9 sec car.

On AAM's behalf, mike's time and effort was consumed by his bussiness and helping his customers. Only in the past year has he really began on the low 10 or 9 sec quest.
 

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SM-4 said:
it bothers me that theres focuses (foci) and fwd 4 bangers the 10/9s and we have barely a few solid 3s's in the 10s and we have 2 more cylinders, 1 more turbo, awd (good/bad) and a lot cooler car :cool:
If it bothers you then go get into the 10's :p :) Just like Powelsound said, as owners we just don't care as much as other cars owners (or else we'd all be doing DR500/650's or 368's). That means less money spent on the aftermarket which means less aftermarket for 3S. So, that means less fast 3S cars.
 

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I think that the car was just not built to go that fast. You have to look at the weight of the car, thats a big issue right there. How many cars have been in the tens that come nearly two tons from the factory?

Also look at the AWD system, you compare us to a skyline in that matter...yet they are totally opposite. The skyline's awd system is so more advanced then ours. I just don't think the 3/S tt was built for 9 second runs.

On a lighter note, it seems as though late's posts are becoming more tolerable, so thats always good. I hope you get a 3/S.
 

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you keep complaining about 9 second 4 bangers, but if you ever looked at one of those neons or civics, you'd see that a 9 second civic isnt exactly streetable, and not exactly comfortable inside. Then go look at our cars running 10s, they're fucking luxury on the inside still, and daily driven!
 

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Deathsled said:
you keep complaining about 9 second 4 bangers, but if you ever looked at one of those neons or civics, you'd see that a 9 second civic isnt exactly streetable, and not exactly comfortable inside. Then go look at our cars running 10s, they're fucking luxury on the inside still, and daily driven!
Thats what I was thinking when I read the thread. I'd much rather be in the VR4 then a 9 second econo box. If I want to go that fast, I'd buy a bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
FireStormTT said:

On a lighter note, it seems as though late's posts are becoming more tolerable, so thats always good. I hope you get a 3/S.
More tolerable......actually I'm just an aquired taste. Eventually everybody comes around, just ask me ;)
 

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man weight is not an issue, the vr-4 and supra have a 300lb weight difference, 300lbs is not going to net us 1 sec off our 1/4 mile time and our starts more than make up for the weight, weight means shit, which is why all the 320hp cars run about the same 1/4 mile stock
 
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Those "daily driven" high horsepower cars have LAG OUT THE ASS. Look at their dyno sheets. They make maybe 200hp until they reach freakin 4500rpm.

Mike of AAM could have that orange car in the 9s if he stripped it down. But it's a comfortable street car that runs 10s.

Another thing is that the drivers here don't seem to be the best. either that or they don't want to break their $3500 transmission (which is understandable). There are just a few really good drivers on the board here, and Trevor (being one of them) is getting bigger turbos. Hopefully we'll see him in the 10s sometime really soon!!!

And no offense to GT Pro and the Drag Pro, but I kinda doubt seeing that car at the drag strip for a long time. They have spent SOOO much time on it thus far (yea they are trying to get everything right).... I don't know if i would even want to run it if it were my car for fear that it would break and have to go back into the shop for another 2+ years for work! I can remember when the 399R turbos were supposed to come out back when i joined in May of '00......... Like I said, no offense to them at all. It seems like it could be a really powerful setup and all, but the time spent on it just to break it now would really put a damper on things.
 

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late said:


Over the years, a ton. Jack T has been trying to break his own record for years. How many 368's have you seen go out and owners not being able to wait for the next "dsm" shootout to break records. GTPRO's been working on their project for what, 2 years now. It didn't take the ford foucs 2 years to run 10's from it's inception. MR2turbo, AMahoser, IPO, Black94VR4 to name a few.
thanks for remembering me :D

i think there will be more in the 10s as the aftermarket increases and parts prices come down. it is true that all the cars came out at about the same time and all offered similar performance out of the box, but the 3/s took MUCH longer to develop any aftermarket support. even today ours is nothing compared to that of the supra/rx7/dsm/civics etc etc. the weight doesnt help any either. i just see it VERY difficult to get in the 9s without really making an all-out race car because of the weight (which most sub 10 sec cars are).

i know im still adding a few things over the winter so she'll be back up and ready for some track time come spring :cool:

i predict quite a few more cars will see 10s in the next year or two but 9s will take more of a "team" effort and an all-out race car.

besides, all one car in the 9s will do is allow the rest of us to point a finger and say if we spend xxxxxx dollars it really is possible. isnt that a given?? with an unlimited budget you could get a ford excursion in the 9s......
 
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