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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My son has a 96 3000GT. I don't. That's why I am envious.
I drove standard trucks and jeeps in the army 30 years ago.
I don't understand why you like manual so much. Educate me.
I love his car and it's automatic. I don't know if my 50+ knees could take a 5 speed. Enjoy your cars and tell me what I'm missing.
 

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14.1 @ 100mph N/A
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3 main reasons:

Automatic transmissions eat more horsepower, so you're working with less power to the wheels than a manual tranny car with the same flywheel horsepower. This is caused by the fluid coupling(torque converter) and the actual design of the gearsets.

On an Auto, you have 1 less gear to work with than the 5spd. this means the rpm's drop far below the powerband(5k-7k rpm) during wide open throttle acceleration. The more gears you have, the better the revs stay in the powerband. A car with fewer gears needs a broader powerband than one with more gears, and broad powerbands don't mix well with high peak power output... in other words, it's easier to build a 500hp engine that pulls from 5k-7k rpm than it is to build a 500hp engine that pulls from 3.5k-7k rpm.

You have better control over the car in performance driving. Example: if I see a Mustang pulling up behind me, i can go ahead and drop it down a few gears so I'll be ready to "hit it" when he makes a move. With an auto, you have to deal with the dealy of the downshift, as well as the fact that it may downshift to 3rd gear when you should have been in 2nd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for your answers. I'll have to sell some 4 door sedans before I buy a GT. Anybody want a Sable, Camry or Volvo?
My son lets me drive to church and to work sometimes. He's been good with his car. Only had it about 1 month.

Hey old guy. I see the 1st Cav patch. I served with the
6/32 Artillery. 175mm and 8 inch bn. Phu Hiep RVN.
Where were you? You probably drove some stick shift also.
 

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Hell, I'm 60 and I road race my 93TT ---- The manual transmission is required if you want to feel like part of the car.

Jim Berry
 

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fastmax said:
Hell, I'm 60 and I road race my 93TT ---- The manual transmission is required if you want to feel like part of the car.

Jim Berry
LOL!!!! you could not have sed it better....

i move with my car in coreners, i dont fight it.... makes me smoother....

its just hearing that music pump, all that info flowing, your mind racing... corner comming up, knowing to drp gear.... and the how powers going to respond...
flying round. popping next. seeing others watch your car jump up from gear change cause of power..

OH YEAAAAAA.....


i need to go change boxers....

oh and welcome to the club, youll find everything you need here including friends, :)
 

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AWD rules
94 SL TT ATX & 97 VR-4
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Originally quoted by wickeddrew:
On an Auto, you have 1 less gear to work with than the 5spd. this means the rpm's drop far below the powerband(5k-7k rpm) during wide open throttle acceleration. The more gears you have, the better the revs stay in the powerband. A car with fewer gears needs a broader powerband than one with more gears, and broad powerbands don't mix well with high peak power output... in other words, it's easier to build a 500hp engine that pulls from 5k-7k rpm than it is to build a 500hp engine that pulls from 3.5k-7k rpm.



But the automatics make up for leaving the powerband for the time it takes it to shift. Lets say both an automatic and manual shift gears, the automatic could shift and rise another 1000rpm before the manual even gets done shifting. Also, that one second delay can be taken care of with a shift kit.

And if you want my opinion, i think someone around here should try to drop in a 5-speed automatic transmission with a high-stall torque converter and see what kind of 1/4 mile times they can come up with.
 

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SLguy said:




But the automatics make up for leaving the powerband for the time it takes it to shift. Lets say both an automatic and manual shift gears, the automatic could shift and rise another 1000rpm before the manual even gets done shifting.
How's that now?

Clint Fralick
 

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SLguy said:
But the automatics make up for leaving the powerband for the time it takes it to shift. Lets say both an automatic and manual shift gears, the automatic could shift and rise another 1000rpm before the manual even gets done shifting. Also, that one second delay can be taken care of with a shift kit.

And if you want my opinion, i think someone around here should try to drop in a 5-speed automatic transmission with a high-stall torque converter and see what kind of 1/4 mile times they can come up with.
1) our cars have notoriously bad auto transmissions. while the time an auto. takes to shift on some cars (BMW, etc...) is faster than a manual, on our cars, it's not

2) people barely make replacement parts for our transmissions, let alone a complete 5-speed auto replacement.

~matt
 

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SLguy said:
But the automatics make up for leaving the powerband for the time it takes it to shift. Lets say both an automatic and manual shift gears, the automatic could shift and rise another 1000rpm before the manual even gets done shifting. Also, that one second delay can be taken care of with a shift kit.
Wow. Misinformation to the Nth degree. Who do you know that takes even a full second to shift a manual? Every person I know, including myself (even though my SL is atx), can shift their 5-speed in the blink of an eye. The shifts on the autos are slow and sloppy, and the shift points are poorly predestined. This isn't Lexus/Mercedes/BMW we're talking about here.

The 3/S autos, and this is stated in 3000GT brochures as well, are made to achieve driver 'comfort' through a signficant intentional decrease in torque before an upshift or downshift. And I pity the fool who's even going to bother 'beefing' up their automatic tranny (that sounds so oxymoronic) with things like shifter kits and high stall TC's.
 

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AWD rules
94 SL TT ATX & 97 VR-4
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well, then we need to find some automatics that are actually good transmissions. I mean, what kind of transmissions do you think race cars use . . . .AUTOMATICS.
 

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SLguy said:
well, then we need to find some automatics that are actually good transmissions. I mean, what kind of transmissions do you think race cars use . . . .AUTOMATICS.
Personally, I think that most race cars use manuals. Anyone want to back me up?:rolleyes:

Clint Fralick
 

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Struggly said:


Personally, I think that most race cars use manuals. Anyone want to back me up?:rolleyes:

Clint Fralick
depends...

most top drag cars are Auto trannies...guaranteed shift times versus human error with a manual.

for all other forms of racing, manuals were the de facto standard up until recent years. I know Ferrari and BMW are both pushing their auto trannies very heavily for racing, and from speaking with some drivers i've met who race in the ferrari 355 and 360 challenge series, they both seem to prefer driving the automatic versions of those cars (F1 style cambiocorsa gearbox) instead of the 6-speed. by having the car take car of clutch, rev-matching, etc..., all they have to do is hit the paddles on the steering wheel, which gives them all that much more time to concentrate on the track, and on their cornering/braking/etc...

~matt
 

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msaskin said:


depends...

most top drag cars are Auto trannies...guaranteed shift times versus human error with a manual.

for all other forms of racing, manuals were the de facto standard up until recent years. I know Ferrari and BMW are both pushing their auto trannies very heavily for racing, and from speaking with some drivers i've met who race in the ferrari 355 and 360 challenge series, they both seem to prefer driving the automatic versions of those cars (F1 style cambiocorsa gearbox) instead of the 6-speed. by having the car take car of clutch, rev-matching, etc..., all they have to do is hit the paddles on the steering wheel, which gives them all that much more time to concentrate on the track, and on their cornering/braking/etc...

~matt
Yes, most drag cars are automatics.

But, the cambiocorsa gearbox, along with the BMW SMG and some others, is NOT an automatic. Those gearboxes have collars, rings, and shift forks, and there is a clutch. To be an automatic transmission it must have a torque converter. You are right that the hydraulically-actuated manual is becoming more popular, but it is a manual nevertheless.

Clint Fralick
 

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Struggly said:


Yes, most drag cars are automatics.

But, the cambiocorsa gearbox, along with the BMW SMG and some others, is NOT an automatic. Those gearboxes have collars, rings, and shift forks, and there is a clutch. To be an automatic transmission it must have a torque converter. You are right that the hydraulically-actuated manual is becoming more popular, but it is a manual nevertheless.

Clint Fralick
very true. it is safe to say that "true" automatics never have been, and never will be favored for anything but drag racing :)

~matt
 

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Hey, drag racing is fun! Plus think about it, if you have some N/A ATX and then some dude thinks he's faster than you cause you have a non-turbo automatic, but your transmission has been swapped out for a lot better automatic, and then you blow him away, thats the greatest part about the racing cause you make him feel like an ass cause his tongue got him in trouble.

Believe me, there are a lot of talkers around here. Some dude with a 1986 300ZX wanted to race me and he actually thought he could take me in a 1994 Camaro Z28. Now i will tell you about the Z28's, their automatic transmissions are great, when you race those, there is like no stall time what so ever.
 

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Originally posted by Prodigy3000
And I pity the fool who's even going to bother 'beefing' up their automatic tranny (that sounds so oxymoronic) with things like shifter kits and high stall TC's.
What's the problem with upgrading an auto tranny? I've heard of a few people who have done this and have seen some good results out of it. That's just like saying "I pity the fool who upgrades their manual tranny with a short throw shifter" or something of that nature. If it makes your car faster or perform better, do it. Throwing in a high stall TC and shift kit costs a heck of a lot less than a tranny swap, so I'd imagine that's why people are doing it (besides the fact that they can't drive stick).

Don't get me wrong, I think manuals are better by far, and when my auto tranny blows you better be damn sure im swappin it with a manual, but until then, I'm perfectly satisfied with my auto.

The shifts on the autos are slow and sloppy
:confused: The shifts might be sloppy, but they sure as hell aren't slow. Using your own words, "that sounds oxymoronic to me."

I'm not here to start a brawl, but that just sounds like misinformation to me. NO auto I've ever seen has shifted slower than a manual. Someone prove me wrong, and I'll take it back.
 
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