What are the bad syncro symptoms???

440 Views 25 Replies 5 Participants Last post by VBBlckBlt, Nov 1, 2001

ukyo

Discussion Starter · Oct 31, 2001

Hi all. I had a really rough day at the track last week and I think I may have screwed my 1 - 2 syncro. Can someone tell me is this sounds like a case of a abused syncro going bad?

The car shifts great 1 - 2 in the 2.5K - 5.5K range, but if I run it up above that and try to make a quick shift I get a slight scratch, but it goes in to gear. For normal day to day driving the car still feels perfect, it's only when I try to get it to shift quick at high RPMs that I get this.

I'm pretty sure it's the syncro, but I want to be sure before I decide on my next course of action.

How much is the Kormex 1 - 2 syncro again???

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

jmactenn

· #2 · Oct 31, 2001

Here you go Travis

-----Original Message-----
From: kormex [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 3:01 PM
To: John
Subject: Re: 3000VR4 syncros

John ,we have the synchro blocking rings for $125.00 each.
Thanks Frank Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: 3000VR4 syncros

> I am looking for 1st and 2nd gear syncronizers for a 91
> Mitsubishi 3000VR$ 5 speed. Others have suggested contacting Kormex.
>
> Thanks
> John Mc Grath
>
>

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ukyo

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 31, 2001

Thanks John. $125 isn't too bad. Is there a difference in the 5 speed and 6 speed syncros (probably...).

Do my symptoms sound like I roasted the syncro to you?

Now all I have to do is get the part and then pay someone $500 - $1K to put it in for me. Man I hate not being mechanically inclined.

jmactenn

· #4 · Oct 31, 2001

Travis,

I haven't checked on 6 speed syncros. Contact Frank at Kormex, he is a really nice guy and is happy to help.

Change your trans and diff fluid as we discussed. Drain them into different containers so that you can look at the fluid as you pour it into disposal containers for metal pieces. If you see brass fragments from the trans that's syncros. Silver is hard metal (gears/bearings.) If it is having no problem shifting in normal use don't worry about it until next season. Save up for the repair.

I am more concerned about your statement that you roasted you clutch Sat. Does it slip in the upper gears when you step down to pass? Did you smell anything while you were running Sat.? Has you clutch pedel height changed noticable? If the answer to these questions is no then you are probably O.K. clutch wise.

John

ukyo

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 31, 2001

jmactenn said:
Travis,

I haven't checked on 6 speed syncros. Contact Frank at Kormex, he is a really nice guy and is happy to help.

I'll shoot him an email today. Hopefully he'll be able to help out, too. I don't mind buying the part(s)... I'm the reason they are in the shape they are in now.

Change your trans and diff fluid as we discussed. Drain them into different containers so that you can look at the fluid as you pour it into disposal containers for metal pieces. If you see brass fragments from the trans that's syncros. Silver is hard metal (gears/bearings.) If it is having no problem shifting in normal use don't worry about it until next season. Save up for the repair.

I'll have to do that this weekend. Looks like my hope for 12s before the end of the season just took a major nosedive.

That's what I get for being ranked #2 on the "Worst 3S Driver" chart (if such a thing existed, that is...).

I am more concerned about your statement that you roasted you clutch Sat. Does it slip in the upper gears when you step down to pass? Did you smell anything while you were running Sat.? Has you clutch pedel height changed noticable? If the answer to these questions is no then you are probably O.K. clutch wise.

John

The clutch doesn't slip. I think it's fine apart from shaving a few months off it's life span. There's no slipping in it at all under any engine load. I just burned it nicely and made a lot of stink from it. It should be good for another year or so (I hope). It's a stocker and it's seen 3 1.7 60' times and a lot more 1.8 and 1.9 60' runs.

I did tuck tail when faced with a frisky LS1 Camaro SS on the trip home. I saw him pull up behind me in my lane at a red light and I told Sonya, "Great... there's a LS1 SS behind us and I don't want to race." Sure enough, as we came off the line he starts swerving back and forth and as soon as there was a gap he shot up next to me. He buzzed by me, but I decided not to bite. He ran it up a little, let off, then ran it up again. I just let him go. I was out of fuel, had a passenger and all my tools in the car, and I just was not in the mood to run. Finally he took a U-turn and went back the way he came. I feel kind of bad, as he obviously drove that way to race me.

It would have been really funny had we caught a light and I miss second and got wasted by him.

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maTT

· #6 · Oct 31, 2001

yeah, thats your syncro. I just replaced mine. Listen, DO NOT grind second any more unless you want to replace the gear too. I had to replaced 5 parts inside (instead of just the syncro) because I continued to race with a bad one. It is still cheap though. Only cost my $291 in parts. If you want, my friend and I can do yours for less $ than anywhere else. Not sure how much, because it's his shop and his shoptime, but I know it would be cheap. Plus we have the experience from doing mine.

shoot me an email at [email protected] if you are interested.

ukyo

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 31, 2001

Just as I feared... oh well... There goes my 12 for this season. Looks like I'll be waiting until spring to make my move. I may skip on the injectors until summer of next year because I want a 12 as is soooo bad. We'll see.

Living proof of the adage: "If you aren't breaking things you aren't really racing"

VBBlckBlt

· #8 · Oct 31, 2001

[sob]no race on Friday?[/sob]
oh well, hope you get this taken care of.

DIY!

man if you need tools, insight on this, or a garage nearby, im not your man

no but i wish i could help

Jeff Lucius

· #9 · Oct 31, 2001

matt92vr4 said:
Listen, DO NOT grind second any more unless you want to replace the gear too.

How did the gear itself get damaged? The gears are always meshed. Look at the pics I have of the gears and synchros and please explain how the 2nd gear got damaged. Thanks.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-AWD4.htm

maTT

· #10 · Oct 31, 2001

I'll do my best:

When you shift into a gear (lets say second) the syncro stops that gear and lets the slider and gear match up. It kinda works like a brake pad. When the syncro get warn down it does not have enough "Beef" to stop the gear and line it up so the gears rub against each other until the seat themselves (this is the grinding noise that we hear).

The gears are NOT together all the time. They are very close, but not engaged. If they were together all the time, the car would grudge down the road. Also, if they were together all the time there would be no need for a syncro! My 2nd gear was worn down just millimeters but it was no good. The teeth need to have pointed edges, mine were rounded. To the untrained eye they look the same.

Hope that makes sense.

Jeff Lucius

· #11 · Oct 31, 2001

Uhh, yes the gears ARE together ALL the time - that's why we need synchros! There is a type of trany in which the gears slide; it doesn't use synchros. Ours are called synchromesh trannies. The others are called antiques.

Take a look at the 5-spd trany pics on my web page below. Read the explanation to go with the pics. Perhaps I am misinterpreting you. What the synchro does is lock the gear to the *shaft*. The *gears* on the different shafts are always meshed completely. One gear is part of one shaft, the other gear spins freely on the other shaft. The gear does not move along the shaft; the synchro does.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-AWD2.htm

The page below expalins the synchros and shows pics.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-AWD4.htm

Now, I'm not denying the gear was worn. But it wasn't because of the gear engaging and disengaging with another gear. What did you replace the gear with? Are there new ones available?

maTT

· #12 · Oct 31, 2001

whatever man, my gear was ground down to nubbs and it was because I continued to drive it and grind it during races. I was just trying to save Travis the trouble of buying another gear.

BTW, do you have any timeslips for that badboy yet?

Jeff Lucius

· #13 · Oct 31, 2001

Timeslips? They all say 14+ seconds. I'm a horrible tuner and drag racer. Hopefully next Spring I'll have my act together and have some drag race results I can be proud of.

Hey, I'm not trying to get on your case. I am trying to understand what happend to the gear. What was the replacement gear; used or new? And if new, where did it come from? Thanks.

The grinding you hear is from the synchro going into and locking with the gear. The gear teeth cannot ever grind; they are always meshed. They can wear though, of course.

maTT

· #14 · Oct 31, 2001

No hard feelings.

I got the gear from KORMEX. It is used but in good condition. I watched the tranny guy explain to me how the entire system works. It was way over my head, but he showed me what was happening, and it seems to me like the gears were sliding around. In fact, he was a little concerned that the new KORMEX syncro had too much beef on it (it didn't) and also showed me a senerio of 2nd being locked in place all the time.

But that was last week and my memory is not good. Unfortunately I did not take any pics. I still have my old gears, but I do not have anything to compare them to. Oh well.

I totally raped my 2nd gear for about 3 months. Went to the track once a week and went street racing twice a month plus all the stoplight street races. By the time I took the tranny out, I had to pull my darndest and let it grind for about 2 seconds before it would go.

ukyo

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 31, 2001

Maybe the timing of my syncro going out was a little fate knocking on the door...

Had I not missed second (thanks to the syncro crapping out on me) I would have been all over a spinning driveshaft at ~85 MPH. That, I think, would have been a lot worse than just losing the syncro.

I guess I'll just take it easy on the car until I can get the syncro replaced, and once I do that stop my quest for the 12s and leave things well enough alone. I've got a fast car... I don't need to keep proving that to myself. All I am doing is driving it to an early grave.

Man, it sucks when reality sinks in...

maTT

· #16 · Nov 1, 2001

I've got a fast car... I don't need to keep proving that to myself. All I am doing is driving it to an early grave.

Thats the reality that hit me this week. You know what it really means, WE ARE GETTING OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ukyo

Discussion Starter · #17 · Nov 1, 2001

matt92vr4 said:
Thats the reality that hit me this week. You know what it really means, WE ARE GETTING OLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not get crazy now. No one said anything about getting old! I just don't have the current funds to be able to have my toys and fix them, too.

I have to take care of them now or I won't get to use them for a while...

VBBlckBlt

· #18 · Nov 1, 2001

you mean once you get older?

thats my plan...when I am old, people will pay me to put my car in Mitsu car shows and such I hope!

ukyo

Discussion Starter · #19 · Nov 1, 2001

You know what? Why give up now? I might as well go ahead and get my 12 (once I get the car fixed, of course). I don't know where I was yesterday, but I obviously was not in the right state of mind.

After I pour a few hundred in to the tranny look out 12s, here I come!!!

VBBlckBlt

· #20 · Nov 1, 2001

i was just looking at your sig travis
seems like someone said in that pic your front wheels came off the ground...is that correct?

if so, then shouldnt you be a lot lower than 12?

it cant be right, its just been bugging me...

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