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Discussion Starter #1
I've been a member for a long time, but sold my 3000GT in 08. Before then I even had a different user name- I've been on here since about 01? Anyway...

I autocross, and since I had a child, I sold my car to buy a 4 door. Now I want to race again, so I wanted to buy another car just for racing.

I spent tons of time looking at Vettes, and I settled on buying a C4, but one problem keeps emergine... I dont like them.

My favorite car is a 3000GT. Always loved them my entire life. Now I'm looking at a VR4 in great shape and thinking about buying it as an AutoX car. the problem? They aren't very competitive in autocross!

How bad is the 3000GT? I race in SCCA- Is it so bad that I can't even have fun because I can't compete in class? It sits there right in F-Stock against F-bodies, Mustangs, CTS-Vs and M5s.

Or is it just not that great, but it can be competitive in local to regional events if you learn how to drive it?

I dont have to win everything, but if I can't be competitive its not going to be fun, but at the same time I dont want to buy some BS car I dont like just to compete.

Thanks!
 

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If you want to auto-x and don't want to spend a ton of money, and as much as I hate to say it, I would buy a Miata or S2000. That said I wouldn't want to drive either of them around anywhere else. You can also get a 2001-2002 Boxster for a decent price (not the sexiest car, but a good value now). Hell even the 911's around the same years are a reasonable price. You can find them with decent mileage under 80k for around $20,000. Probably a lot more fun at Auto-X or road course, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Is F-stock the class you plan on competing in?
I've been running FS for a few years now. Thats what I was planning on with the 3kgt, although I have about 20k available so I could probably move it up a few classes if necessary. I thought the AWD and AWS would give the 3kgt a unique competitive factor (edge is the wrong word) compared to some of the other cars in the class.

If you want to auto-x and don't want to spend a ton of money, and as much as I hate to say it, I would buy a Miata or S2000. That said I wouldn't want to drive either of them around anywhere else. You can also get a 2001-2002 Boxster for a decent price (not the sexiest car, but a good value now). Hell even the 911's around the same years are a reasonable price. You can find them with decent mileage under 80k for around $20,000. Probably a lot more fun at Auto-X or road course, too.
I looked at the S2000s. Not a big fan. I can't fit in the boxsters, but I do drive a Mercedes SLK. It could be OK but I'd like to start tuning the car and the such and I want to drive the SLK as a street-driven car.

As I said, I'm not looking at 3kgts for the price or because they are the best, but because I love them. I miss my 3kgt so much. I can spend up to about 20k, I just dont want to buy a VR4 for autocross and be so far behind the competition that its not even fun to TRY and fine tune the suspension and tire combos and driving strategy. I'm a little too competitive for that (been dominating FS already).

I presume the VR4 can compete better in FS than the SL can in G-Stock, not that I want to drive a FWD anyway for racing. Maybe I need to stick with the F-Bodies, but I thought I'd check in to see if there was a way I could drive my favorite car of all time again!


While the GT is competent its HEAVY so its not a great autocrosser.

-SP

3780 for the VR4, officially .90 on the skidpad, . I've heard of race rubber hitting well above 1 on the skidpad. AWD/AWS

3750 for the camaro, .89 g on the skidpad, with racers hitting the very low 1s. RWD, 100 more HP, and is "banned" from FS classing.

So we have a camaro with the same weight, but much more HP- however the VR4 with AWD and AWS which the subarus have shown do very well on tighter courses compared to the oversteering Fbodies. The camaro has more power, but because of such has been banned from FS competition in SCCA.

It looked to ME like the VR4, while slightly lagging in the acceleration department could probably carry more speed through the turns and therefore could be competitive, but I guess since theres been no successful SCCA AutoX racers running VR4s (to my knowledge) and 8.5" wide wheels aren't a bad size compared to a lot of the stock racers...





Thanks everyone for the thoughts. I guess I'm leaning towards scrappy the 3kgt and sticking with the F-bodies :( It was worth a shot!
 

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Don't do it, if its a autocross specific vehicle there are so many better platforms to start with, the car just weighs to much to be that nimble.
 

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I may as well chime in with my two cents.

I autocrossed our 92 vr4 and 91 vr4 for a couple of years.

92 had 15g, 550cc, walbro, greddy rs, single shot exhaust, intake
tein s techs and 200lb weight reduction.
ran dunlop semi slicks at 44psi

It was with SCCA, so lots of rules, we were safety stewards. so first ones there
last ones to leave.
Also as you may know, lots of rules means some fun, not too much.
course design and speed rules prevent the vr4 from shining where its strong, 3rd gear.
it was all 1st and 2nd gear courses.

the 91 was all stock. whats funny is i turned better times with that car than the modified car with semi slicks.

but....with scca being such a great community, my 92 did spring an oil leak in the middle of the season, and other dudes let me drive their cars.

Evo, STi, Porsche Cayman, Miata, Camaro, Eclipse, BMW.

out of all those, I enjoyed the Porsche the most.
The Cayman is a mid engine Porsche. it was so well balanced. granted it was
wearing slicks. but it was like real poon tang compared to porn. just so much better.

if you got 20,000 to spend on autocross, dont spend it on a 3000gt snow plow. unless you just like the car and want to participate and not be very competive.

my Galant vr4 autocross's much better than my 3000gtvr4 cause the gearing on the galant is so short it has instant boost and more neutral chassis. but still not as good as other platforms.

now if you were to compete in other car club auto crosses with higher track speeds, as SCCA limits track speed, then 3000gt would be fun.

well, i guess thats more like a dollars worth of thoughts.

like you, I begat children, and the racing days are done.
 

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I've been a member for a long time, but sold my 3000GT in 08. Before then I even had a different user name- I've been on here since about 01? Anyway...

I autocross, and since I had a child, I sold my car to buy a 4 door. Now I want to race again, so I wanted to buy another car just for racing.

I spent tons of time looking at Vettes, and I settled on buying a C4, but one problem keeps emergine... I dont like them.

My favorite car is a 3000GT. Always loved them my entire life. Now I'm looking at a VR4 in great shape and thinking about buying it as an AutoX car. the problem? They aren't very competitive in autocross!

How bad is the 3000GT? I race in SCCA- Is it so bad that I can't even have fun because I can't compete in class? It sits there right in F-Stock against F-bodies, Mustangs, CTS-Vs and M5s.

Or is it just not that great, but it can be competitive in local to regional events if you learn how to drive it?

I dont have to win everything, but if I can't be competitive its not going to be fun, but at the same time I dont want to buy some BS car I dont like just to compete.

Thanks!
I love the 3S platform ............... as a GT, not a autocross vehicle. Yes, I've tracked and autocrossed my VR4s, but doing it less and less. Just not the platform unless you get serious about weight loss. Still love the on-road handling my current VR4 has and wouldn't change a thing. And the 3S chassis is a bit dated compared to others in its classes.

That said ............. if I was looking for an autocross-only car that could still be driven there and back, two top choices would be S2000 and Miata. Stock they are both light, fun to toss around, reasonable power (especially the S2000). Moderately mod either of them and you'll feel your in a race car. And used ones are affordable.

You say you don't like the S2000. I assume you've spent a fair amount of time behind the wheel of one? If so, what were the issues you found. Granted, they're not being made any longer.

I have a '70 Ram Air Firebird in the garage (wt = 3100lbs), but would not recommend newer f-bodies. Large, heavy, difficult to get out of their own way in an autocross situation. They look more like whales on a course than a 3S.

Boxster/Cayman ......... expensive for what you get to autocross.

Older Vettes, like newer f-bodies are a bit difficult to get around a course. New generations (6, 7) a different story, but more expensive. (I don't think you'll find the C4 very competitive, and you don't like its looks.)

But in the end ........... when you go to the SCCA meets (and you know this) you see all makes and models on the courses. Its really what floats your boat. Last meet I ran there was a beat-up pick-up truck that ran all day. Really! To each his own :)
 

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I won a season 2nd place trophy in the novice modified class with my VR-4 as a result of a good first season dodging cones. But once I figured out that I would be classed in SP or SSP I realized I was wayy outgunned.

In my Miata, I have ran one event with no front sway, 100% stock engine, and 205 street tires, and placed 5th in a class of 15, behind 4 guys on slicks.

Although I will not knock the VR-4's ability at an autocross - I think it a very capable car - I think that your success will only be a function of your own skill and what else is in your class. To that end, a Miata is much easier to dodge cones quickly in, and can be very competitive in its class. There are pros and cons on both sides, but I guess the decision is up to you.
 

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My Mk2 16vG60 Golf would kill the GTO at autocross even though it`s got half the horsepower..
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
You say you don't like the S2000. I assume you've spent a fair amount of time behind the wheel of one? If so, what were the issues you found. Granted, they're not being made any longer.

I have a '70 Ram Air Firebird in the garage (wt = 3100lbs), but would not recommend newer f-bodies.

Older Vettes, like newer f-bodies are a bit difficult to get around a course. New generations (6, 7) a different story, but more expensive. (I don't think you'll find the C4 very competitive, and you don't like its looks.)

But in the end ........... when you go to the SCCA meets (and you know this) you see all makes and models on the courses. Its really what floats your boat. Last meet I ran there was a beat-up pick-up truck that ran all day. Really! To each his own :)
I'm 6'9" and just can't fit in the S2000s comfortably (or miatas... or boxsters... or M3/4s...). The S2000 is drivable, and not an issue for street driving, but I have rotation issues on the steering wheel because of my legs. I had trouble on a road course- i can only imagine trying to drive it in autocross. I can fit in the AMG SLKs thats about the only 2 seater roadster I can handle, and I do already in a lot of the 2+2s, corvettes, and I also do ok in the fieros.

The C4s are extremely competitive. The SCCA puts the C4 in BS, against the S2000, porsches, WRX, NSX, etc. and while they are a little longer than some of them, they still seem extremely competitive as they are number 2 behind the S2000s in last years prosolo competition.

At the local and regional levels, you see a lot of C4s dominating BS classes.

Maybe I need to look more into an Rx8. Those are OK in yellow and blue, they just aren't that fun to drive IMO. I'm now mainly looking for an F-body, but they are so hard to figure out the classing situation. I guess an Iroc-z is the best you can do on paper, but why are the FS national competitors running other setups? For someone who owned multiple camaros, I dont seem to know them that well. I'm also in the market for a late 70s camaro for show... I know they cant compete in racing.

It looks like you know the F-Bodies. Everything i read talks about the gen 3 Fbodies being the best for FS (besides a mustang- I wont drive a Ford)- is an Iroc-Z the way to go? Camaro SS, Firehawks, and WS6 Level 1 and 2 firebirds are not allowed in FS.

Thanks for the feedback! I am limiting my search to what "floats my boat". Thats why I was hoping to run a VR4 (my favorite car of all time)- however, if I'm going to devote something to racing its got to be remotely competitive of I'm going to get frustrated struggling with the limitations of the car if you know what i mean.
 

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I'm 6'9" and just can't fit in the S2000s comfortably (or miatas... or boxsters... or M3/4s...). The S2000 is drivable, and not an issue for street driving, but I have rotation issues on the steering wheel because of my legs. I had trouble on a road course- i can only imagine trying to drive it in autocross. I can fit in the AMG SLKs thats about the only 2 seater roadster I can handle, and I do already in a lot of the 2+2s, corvettes, and I also do ok in the fieros.

The C4s are extremely competitive. The SCCA puts the C4 in BS, against the S2000, porsches, WRX, NSX, etc. and while they are a little longer than some of them, they still seem extremely competitive as they are number 2 behind the S2000s in last years prosolo competition.

At the local and regional levels, you see a lot of C4s dominating BS classes.

Maybe I need to look more into an Rx8. Those are OK in yellow and blue, they just aren't that fun to drive IMO. I'm now mainly looking for an F-body, but they are so hard to figure out the classing situation. I guess an Iroc-z is the best you can do on paper, but why are the FS national competitors running other setups? For someone who owned multiple camaros, I dont seem to know them that well. I'm also in the market for a late 70s camaro for show... I know they cant compete in racing.

It looks like you know the F-Bodies. Everything i read talks about the gen 3 Fbodies being the best for FS (besides a mustang- I wont drive a Ford)- is an Iroc-Z the way to go? Camaro SS, Firehawks, and WS6 Level 1 and 2 firebirds are not allowed in FS.

Thanks for the feedback! I am limiting my search to what "floats my boat". Thats why I was hoping to run a VR4 (my favorite car of all time)- however, if I'm going to devote something to racing its got to be remotely competitive of I'm going to get frustrated struggling with the limitations of the car if you know what i mean.
Yup, you have to ride what you like .... otherwise you'll be miserable unless winning everything in sight.

At 6-9 you're not sized for an S2000. Too bad ........ probably the most unappreciated (by the general public) car on the road. A great contrast with the 3S ....... great sports car vs. great GT.

I really haven't followed the f-bodies for years. When they started to balloon in size, more inefficient in space, countless (IMO) unnecessary design cues I lost interest.

I'm not really into where I place in a class. My goal on each course is to beat my prior time. I realize I'm ham handed and usually end up mid-pack regardless of class I get stuck in. My real joy has been to let a couple of SCCA instructors take my VR4 around the course. Inevitably they jump out and say: 'always wanted to drive one of these ........ didn't realize they do so well.' That was better than winning my class those days.

Good luck with your search. ALWAYS great getting a new toy to track. Although my wife might dispute that :)
 

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you can fit in a miata with a racing seat bolted to the floor with no problem. i am 6 foot and had a corbeau forza bolted to the floor in my 90 miata and i had more head room in it than in my vr4.
 

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Ive raced my vr4 at the autox for the last couple of years and noticed that the combination of larger wheelbase, heavier weight, and awd understeer, the tight technical autox events just dont favor our platform, they shine much much better in a road course where they can stretch their legs with the gearing as well as the low/wide size of the vehicle, buy a used lotus, theyve done some impressive things here at our local courses in wi and mn
 

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Get a completely standard sohc 5 speed. You can build up the motor a bit but it could be very fun! Minor suspension and tire mods could go a long way. Just sounds like it'd be fun.
 

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A few years ago 3 of the Columbus members showed up to an auto X day at OSU and walked all over the vettes, mustangs, Cadillacs. After some complaining they were kicked out of that class and forced in with the subies for the day. Another local member has won his class a few seasons in a row. Reason I say this is so you know they can be competitive.
Honestly my biggest question is how good of a driver are you? If your not a "good" on track driver then the benefit to a 3s is you have to make up in skill the gaps between us and others in weight, size, power. Which, after a season or 2 in a 3000 switch to a smaller car and you will be amazed how much faster you will become.

The upside is that you can pick up a 3s cheap, do minor upgrades for cheap and you love them; so you get to hold onto that for a bit longer.
 

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I have run my 91 Base Dodge in many types of driving, and it does seem nose heavy on tight courses, but here is an idea, try a 1st gen Eclipse/Talon. They handle great, are meant for tight running, and the 4 banger has a serious RPM range. I was actually almost more comfy in the 2 I had owned more so than the 3S, but I wanted a 3S since I first saw them. The Eclipse/Talon (had a 90 Talon 2.0 and a 91 Eclipse 1.8) that either one at the time would kill the ricers in Reno, and they were both STOCK. the 1.8 was quick off the line, but the 2.0 had longer legs. give it a though. If you like the 3S as much as you say, give its little bretherin a chance, you may be surprised. BTW. the 3S is based on a elongated and widened 1st Gen Eclipse Chassis, just got real heavy with all the extra goodies it holds.
 

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where did u get that from?
with 20k you can look at nsx also though.
where i get that from is 1) Mitsubishi when originally selling the cars. 2) Edmonds. 3) Motor Trend. i dont see it hard to consider when you look at things like the New Challenger being BASED on the older one, the NEWER Ford Thunderbird being BASED on the older ones, the 67 Camaro being BASED on the Mustang, the Firebird's being BASED on the Camaro's. Just cause a vehicle is BASED on another style/type/or platform, doesnt mean it is one, or that anything is interchangeable. the biggest one i can point out here? the Stealth is BASED on the 3000GT, the Eagle Talon/Plymouth Laser were BASED on the Mitsu Eclipse, and those are inter changeable, but not to a cross platform way. just cause i repeated what Mitsubishi itself said 21 years ago doesnt make it any less likely, i could BASE my life on any character from history, doesnt mean i would be anything like them or even be ale to replace them. besides, before i ever got my hands on one i always thought it LOOKED like an Eclipse on steroids. now that i have one, it drives like one, just a tad nose heavy, but otherwise a friggin blast.:)
 
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