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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
THIS IS THE ORIGINAL 13T INTEGRATION, BROUGHT TO YOU EXCLUSIVELY BY "THE MAN" RobBeck. I HAVE HUNDREDS OF HOURS VESTED IN THIS PROCESS AND HAVE RELEASED ALOT OF GATHERED INFORMATION BELOW TO HELP THOSE INTERESTED MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION. EXCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

Integration Cost:
$600 Plus Shipping For Both Turbos
$315 Plus Shipping For Single Turbo (Still don’t recommended mixing turbine wheels)
$250 Refundable core

I would like 2 payments if you are doing the core process and using paypal ([email protected]), this makes it easy to refund the core dollars when I get your old housings back without either party incurring paypal fees (IE. One paypal for $600 plus shipping and another for $250; the $250 Transaction will just be refunded upon my receipt of your cores with no fees if done within 60 days), or you may fall into the new plan. From here on out, core refunds will be prorated. It will give 60 Calendar days (day of your reciept of turbos to the day of my core turbine housing reciept back) before 10% of the refund is forfeited. Then another 5% every additional 15 days..... and eventually bottom out at $140 for the set. This means after 60 days, the Gross $250 will be refunded at $225, 75 days will be $214, 90 days will be $203, 105 days will be $193, 120 days will be $183, and 121-180 (or more) days will be $140 Refund. I can then decline them (if desired) after the 180 day mark. That should encourage a reasonably fast swap, and point out that its not a good idea to get in on this until you are ready to swap turbos. If you provide your own 9B turbine housings then this is all irrelevant. Also I do not take any payment until I am ready to ship the finished product back out.

WRX 13T Cost:
WRX turbos are very common and cheap, as longs as we 3si'rs dont bid against each other and drive up the price.. they can go for $75 to $175 each for very nice pieces. They are very high in production, so thinking no more are going to come around is a no no. Be patient, and get them for $125 each. DO NOT pay over $200 for these.... those guys get a new upgraded turbo in the $400-$600 range... or really nice ones for $700-$900... they as of NOW don’t expect too much for their stocker. The more people pay, the more the value goes up... we don’t want that. Remember they are still putting these into WRXs as we speak, and who knows how many more years they will continue to do so. Why pay huge $$ for a rebuilt turbo with a tiny compressor housing, knowing that if it fails again you have to pay the same huge $$ amount again.... which for some reason happens a lot. Buy an OEM quality turbo, put it on the car, and get OEM life out of it. You should be able to sell your good 9Bs (Minus wastegates and turbine housing) for around $200, to help reduce costs of this setup. Remember my price does not include the wrx turbos themselves. The real beauty of this is once you have the kit.... any later turbo failure and it will only cost you about $150 to resurrect as opposed to full price like other setups (unless you are lucky enough to get it warrantied). So again with this integration you are setup with a relatively new and cheap turbo upgrade until Subura stops making WRXs with TD04s. You will also receive more precise instructions and pics of required clearancing.

WRX Turbos needed:
2000-present standard WRX (NON STI) TD04 13T turbos with part #49377-04300. Most Subura owners like to call their own turbos 13Gs, if you have them tell you they are 13Gs... just ignore them and confirm the part number. There are some other WRX turbos that will work as well that are moreso overseas, but I can not guarantee that they all will work with my bracketry. There seems to be some compressor housing casting changes from one to another so there could also be some interferences, but they could be worked around by some modification. You are however best off looking for the US Market turbo 49377-04300. The newer 49377-04505 will also work. Here are the other older numbers and a couple pics for your reference (49377-04100, 49377-04180, 49377-04190,
49377-04200, 49377-04280, 49377-04290).
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Marty6470/WRX+Turbos/100_0772.JPG
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Marty6470/WRX+Turbos/100_0776.JPG
http://www.wrxlinks.com/images/turbo_lg.jpg
http://www.drinkalot.com/poco/turbo1.jpg
http://www.drinkalot.com/poco/turbo2.jpg
http://www.drinkalot.com/poco/turbo3.jpg

Questions to ask when you are purchasing your turbos:
1) Reason for removing?
2) Did it use oil/blow smoke?
3) Does it have excessive shaft play?
4) What kind of mileage?
5) Visual damages to the compressor or turbine wheels? Did you look very closely?
6) Can you get me some pictures?
7) Do the wheels spin freely and smoothly by hand?
8) Did the turbo make any noises and/or whine when on car, especially when spooling?

Remember it is very important to ask a bunch of questions, but nothing can prevent some scandalous asswads from trying to screw someone over every now and then... but we have to hope that sellers will disclose what they know. Get all the facts in email and in addition have real confirming phone conversations and numbers, etc.... sometimes people have a harder time lying over the phone or you can catch them in a lie easier.

Parts I need and shipping considerations:
I need only 9B turbine housings (unless you are doing core plan you use mine) and the WRX 13T compressor housings and CHRAs (cartridge assemblies) although I prefer the WRX 13T being sent fully assembled. Dont dispose of obvious reassembly hardware however (ie. bolts, clamps, oil feed lines, oil drain lines, coolant lines, intercooler pipes, etc)…. I don’t need them but YOU will when reassembling. Be careful if separating the housings, if done unevenly or without consideration you can also very easily damage the turbine wheel. Also be advised their is a small little dowel pin that ALWAYS GETS BUSTED.... PLEASE take care to separate 9b cartridge from the turbine housing. It goes straight off, tap around the perimeter of the turbine housing with a hammer while holding the compressor housing slightly elevated with your left hand. WD-40 or Pbblaster may also help. Do not try to do some serious prying to separate the housings, the tapping should work fine (you can do minor prying after the housings have separated quite a bit). And dont try to twist the housing off... or that little pin will break... and I will have to spend some time on repairing it! Sometimes this pin will break however, and when it does don’t worry we will repair it free of charge. You can also send in your complete 9B turbochargers and I will disassemble them and send you back the remains. For those packaging and working with these housings, I do recommend leaving the turbos fully assembled during shipment to protect the wheels from damage. Otherwise pack them VERY well and secure to not be hindered by being dropped or thrown about. Also be aware that the wastegate flapper arm easily bends if too much pressure is exerted on it. They can be bent back for the most part but it is only soo many times before that thing breaks off. I am not sure where a replacement for that could be found, may have to be custom machined or something. I once received a package with turbos that had the turbine housings removed and had little turbine wheel protection and some wheel fins were bent up pretty good during shipment. I did what I can to straighten them out, but I can’t guarantee perfection and am unsure how this could affect the performance and life of the turbo. So wrap and PROTECT your turbo components like they were glass if you insist on shipping without the turbine housings!

Where to buy the WRX turbos:
http://forum.wrx.com.au/
http://www.clubwrx.net/
http://www.wrxfanatics.com/
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/
http://www.ebay.com
Friends, Family, etc.

WRX Turbo performance:
Have yet to find a flow chart for the WRX TD04 13T turbo. On the WRX boards they post the 13G flow chart when someone asks about the stock WRX turbo, the 13g is MUCH smaller in comparison to the 13T so I highly doubt they are equivalent. Because of this and the lack of overall results, one can not without a doubt say that it is better or worse than a 15g, DR500, etc. However, based on compressor wheel (and housing) and the turbine wheel (and housing) dimensions I THINK it very well could be similar or superior in performance while at a fraction of the cost. I have heard reports of these holding OVER 20psi thru redline thus far... but personally only can vouch for 16.5psi as my car has been apart for ever. CANENAC/AdamVR4 have seen over 20psi to redline on their dyno days. Here are some links that have drag times and a dyno pull.
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=205193
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=226352

Here is the latest and Greatest RobBeck 13T Dyno info, CANENACs car Tuned By AdamVR4 (464AWHP/491LB/FT Torque) :

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=256441

Jason_99ozGS has the current Pump Gas ET Record of [email protected] @14-15psi in a Full weight 94 6 speed on a stock air meter and very simple supporting mods in 93* St. Louis summer heat.

jet has leaped into the race gas ET/MPH record with a [email protected] at higher boost levels and nearly NO mods at all, main mod being RobBeck 13T's.
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=288329

 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Some Turbo Comparison Specs:
13T Compressor Wheel
Inducer 1.597"
Exducer 2.205"
13T Turbine Wheel (TD04L)
Inducer 1.860"
Exducer 1.620"
9B Compressor Wheel
Inducer 1.365"
Exducer 1.930"
9B Turbine Wheel (TD04)
Inducer 1.860"
Exducer 1.550"
13G Compressor Wheel
Inducer 1.580"
Exducer 2.000"
13G Turbine Wheel (TD04)
Inducer 1.860"
Exducer 1.550"
15G Compressor Wheel
Inducer 1.625"
Exducer 2.187"
15T Compressor Wheel
Inducer 1.654"
Exducer 2.205"
15G Turbine Wheel (TD04)
Inducer 1.860"
Exducer 1.550"

The 13G and 15G can also be purchased as a TD04L or TD04HL Turbo, which means they have the bigger turbine wheel already in place. I have one source who says his 13Ts slid right into his TD04L Turbine housing with no interference, and another source from the UK who said they were NOT interchangeable. My service converts TD04 Turbine Housings to TD04L, to work with 13Ts. The TD04HL is yet a bigger turbine wheel, and seems to be about the maximum you can fit into the TD04 housing.

Supporting mods:
I believe you can run totally stock with really low boost (~9psi). Recommendations for more power utilization would be 450-720cc injectors, Hotwired supra fuel pump (maybe AFPR if directly hotwired), piggyback for fine tuning, Greddy Type S BOV, EBC or MBC, Logger, Pro M Karman Converter/MAFT/ARC2/AEM/MAP ECU/etc (to eliminate the Karman meter)/Wideband O2/Knock Monitor/EGT gauge/Full exhaust and a good clutch are some suggestions. Basically the same as any other upgraded turbo.

Integration work included in cost:
1) Receipt of package. Disassemble and separate of all received turbos, inspect, and prepare for below.
2) Machining Turbine housing. CNC Boring/Recontouring the factory 9B turbine housings to clear the BIGGER WRX turbine wheel. Using the 9B turbine housing allows these be a “bolt-on” turbo. If the CHRA to Turbine housing alignment pin happens to be broken off (very common), it is drilled out and replaced with a new pin at no extra charge. The 91-93.5 1st Gen Turbine housings come with a .250” recess for the smaller lipped cartridges, these housings will be machined to ~.450” which converts them to the 93.5-99 2nd Gen style; this is required as MHI converted their cartridges over to a “Big Lip” in mid ’93. The lip boring also comes in at no extra cost for 1st Gens, and obviously the 2nd Gens require no modification here.
IMPORTANT: Those who send me housings back from the core with broken off studs that need drilled out will be charged for the bolt removal, it will be deducted from the up front core charge or added to the up front cost of the work if you sent me your own housings. It has been determined that sometimes fixing these bolts actually takes longer than the machine work on the bore/contour does... so my machinist is wanting compensation. Cost will fall at $20 per bolt if machine drilling is required, if I can get out on a vice with bad ass vice grips it will be free. If you want to take care of this yourself feel free but do NOT try doing it with a hand drill or making the JOB WORSE for him because you screwed it up and still need to get it done. If you can’t get the bolts out by vice grips and lubrication and in a vice.... it has to be drilled and HAS to be done by machine or drill press at least (do not attempt it if you are new to it). This material is hard as hell and you can easily screw up the housings trying to do a hack. It is just time consuming and frustrating on our end so he cant eat that time anymore. If you send me your housings and don’t care if I send them back with the same broken bolts that is fine too, just let me know up front. FYI I am attaching a turbo parts list, notice in this list I have indicated a part # for STUDS to be added in the front turbine housing... rather than using the bolts. 90% of the broken bolts I see are from the factory front turbine housing BOLTS, using studs here should help significantly from breakage. Also be aware to not fudge up the gasket surfaces if using vice grips, etc to get the bolt out.
3) Machining CHRA. CHRA (Cartridge assembly) will have a freeze plug removed and then surfaced and tapped on the CNC Mill. This allows use of OEM Coolant lines and assures the banjo bolts makes a straight entry and therefore doesn’t leak, because they have to be perfect and doing by hand will yield problems (I know from my own mistake!).
4) Hand work. Turbine housing scroll area blending and polishing; outlet porting, blending, and polishing. Assortments of carbides, stones, cartridge rolls, etc are used in this process which takes a GOOD amount of time; easily the most time is consumed here.
5) More Fun. Compressor housing clocking for the front and rear, both turbos will come with holes pre-drilled to work on either. I strive to pick the better of the two turbos for installation on the rear.
6) Wastegate Actuators. Custom Aluminum T6061 relocation brackets to allow the actuators to be bolted into stock 9b Turbo locations, these are designed to work specifically with my own clocking locations.
7) Rear Turbo outlet. Install a small section of hose (~2.25” long), with stainless clamps, for the rear turbo outlet to intercooler pipe. Since the Turbo Outer diameter on the outlet is ~1.9” (Inner diameter is ~1.6”) and the stock IC pipe Outer diameter is ~1.525” (Inner diameter is ~1.475”); I must stretch the Turbo side of the hose to mate up while the IC pipe still fits snug. I have found that a 1.625” hose seems to work the best here. I use a tailpipe expander and a heat gun to make this a easier task, although it still takes quite a bit of time.
9) Clean all components (aside for CHRA) in my parts washer, to ensure all residual metal/grease/grime/etc are cleaned from them. They are then blown off with an air compressor, at which time they get a 2nd round of brake parts cleaner and more air compressor action. The CHRA is involved with this round.
10) Assembly of housings. I use motor oil on the seal/area for the compressor housing side, and align it with my new pre-drilled clocking hole for the front or rear… whichever it happens to be. The BIG inside Circlip is installed such that it could be removed while the turbo is on the car, if ever need be. On to the turbine housing, I use Anti-Seize on the Lip or Protusion of the cartridge that goes into the housing and install it and make sure it rests nicely into the housing. Wheel to housing clearances are checked out to make sure all appears well, have yet to see a problem here after initial R&D… so the CNC’ing seems to be consistent as it should. The custom plug for the extra WRX coolant passage is then installed, using liquid Teflon to prevent leakage. All Wastegate mounting bracketry is then installed, and if wastegate actuators are included I will mock them up and adjust as well; I do recommend they are checked by the final installer to confirm they are adjusted right as well.
11) Shipping. I try to pack the turbos up very nicely so they risk no damage during transit. I have purchased boxes that seem to fit them pretty good, and use packing material where appropriate. Any more, and to be safe, I purchase ~$1500 insurance on them and ship via UPS ground.

Modifications to be done by the installer (bench grinder/die grinder/dremel recommended; pics and further direction to be provided):
1) Rear turbo. The factory intercooler pipe will have to be cut down about .5”, and a hose with 2 clamps installed on it to make connections (the hose and clamps will come pre-equipped on turbo); the hard pipes associated heat shield will also require modification or removal. The rear intake support bracket will require some clearancing or it could be permanently removed as well. Some attention to the rear AC line maybe and issue, pending on motor mount condition and flex, etc.
2) Front turbo. The front motor mount bracket will have to be modified to clear the compressor housing outlet. This may not be absolutely required in all situations, but it is highly recommended. The stock hose will fit over the outlet, but it is somewhat difficult.

Overall I wanted everything intact so I modified everything and pics will be included of each component. The underhood visual appears 100% stock, aside from the much nicer looking compressor housings.

DIY Version:
Early on, I thought about doing a DIY version that was decently discounted. I decided against it because the way it was setup it would have made little to negative $$ for what turned out to be an assload of time, work, and effort even yet on my part. If I were the machinist it would be more worth it, but all in all it was snip snipped.

Turnaround time for my work:
It should take no more than 6 weeks from turbo arrival to turbo departure, if all goes well and I have no interruptions it could be as short as 2 weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Future of the 13T and upgradability:
I am considering converting 13Ts into either 18Ts or 19Ts. Currently I just need a 18T or 19T compressor housing so I can work them. I currently have someone with a CNC Lathe and also someone who has the computerized tooling to write a CNC program to capture its complex radius to match the Inducer to Exducer blade design, so I am really limited by not having the Turbo hardware. Once I get the hardware and the software written, I can turn it over to the machinist with the CNC Lathe to cut the compressor housings for me. Then the turbo would still need to be sent to a shop for some good balancing, far as I know balancing requires extremely special tool at which it can spin a oil lubricated CHRA at high rates of speed to do an effective balance. I have also read that some just need the wheels and shafts and that is sufficient. I know of NO way to get balancing done, aside for buying the proper machine or by paying someone who has already bitten off the price for one and get their pricing. You could also just send your 13T (or buy a spare) to send into Forced Performance, they currently have this leg work accomplished and convert WRX turbos to 18Ts for $599 including clipping and balancing (this does not eliminate the need for the WRX integration).

List of known members with 13T cars running (if there are others please advise):
1) Me
2) Blue94VR4inNM
3) Kuato
4) bmcarrol
5) Shiver
6) Smokinvr-4(Kyle)
7) twiceblown
8) lowflier03
9) Stealth 222 (Cole)
10) upyun (single turbo)
11) 97whiteVr4
12) 92rtawd
13) Awdvr4

Current List of 13T participants:
1) Me
2) CartoonJon
3) Kuato
4) bmcarrol
5) Shiver
6) Smokinvr-4
7) oohnoo
8) vc_wannabe
9) lowflier03
10) Stealth 222
11) upyun (single turbo)
12) 97whiteVr4
13) 92rtawd
14) Awdvr4
15) Turbo_StealthRT
16) vr4_rider
17) HECKTORBFS
18) will mahler
19) CANENAC (13T World Record 472awhp&511lb/ft tq)
20) Twin Jim
21) Hannibalzero
22) mitsy
23) Chris7519
24) pjayp
25) kcalvano
26) Itlnstallion
27) Internexus
28) s mi11er

The 3 on decks are now intact. I have quite a bit of work in front of me before I ask for the next on the list. Those who are on deck please only nominate yourself if you are going to be in for the long haul... so I can keep this list running as efficiently as possible. You 3 will be called upon when I am going to be ready for shipment. Also, you will see for HECKTORBFS I put (needs cores) against. If you need cores you may get skipped pending on if I have any at that time. I only have 2 sets of cores and they are going to be out, so hopefully those with my housings get them back ASAP.... so I can continue to work for those who are in "need core" status.
 

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I have a friend who has a WRX turbo but he said that when he took the nut off the top of the inlet turbine wheel wheel and then tried to install the nut back on it messed the turbo up. The wheels spin freely without the nut in place but he said when he put it back in the wheels wouldnt spin anymore. Should i buy this turbo and what problems could occur from this?
-Ryan
 

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Rob, I got my turbos back from you today and they look amazing!!! i will start putting them on tomorrow morning and i will call you if i need help, but with the print out of directions, it should be pretty straight forward. Thanks again for all your help and i look forward to doing business with you in the future! ALSO, chicago's RSD (real street drags) is comming up this thursday, i will try to get my car ready and run with the new turbos. I will post up times if i get the car to the track!
 

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I would really like to go with either the 18t or 19t so when u have those available please let us know.
 

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I am very interested in this service. I will be looking to do this very soon. Is it possible I can keep everything stock except for these turbos for now?
 

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GTOVR4TT said:
I am very interested in this service. I will be looking to do this very soon. Is it possible I can keep everything stock except for these turbos for now?
This is what it says in the second post if you look above:

ROBBECK said:
Supporting mods:
I believe you can run totally stock with really low boost (~9psi). Recommendations for more power utilization would be 450-720cc injectors, Hotwired supra fuel pump (maybe AFPR if directly hotwired), piggyback for fine tuning, Greddy Type S BOV, EBC or MBC, Logger, MAFT/ARC2/AEM/MAP ECU/etc (to eliminate the Karman meter)/Wideband O2/Knock Monitor/EGT gauge/Full exhaust and a good clutch are some suggestions. Basically the same as any other upgraded turbo.
So, yeah, you can get away with everything else stock until you save up for fuel.
 

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RobBeck>>>>>>

Bro... I Just Talked to JIM at TEC... He Looked Over Your Thread and Seems to Be Interested in it... I Org call because of the 18T/19T UpGrade to see what they would do it for to Compaire to Forced Performance... You May want to give him a Call... The # for a Quick Reff is 800.950.8872...

I Hope this can Help You Out Some...

DM... :evil1:
 

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Iceman3K15 said:
subscribing
To subscribe to a thread.....click on the "Thread Tools" menu at the top of the thread, then click "Subscribe to this Thread". This way it subscribes you to the thread and doesn't make the thread unnecessarily longer than it has to be. Also, other members don't waste their time reading a "subscribe" post.

Sorry, nothing personal, this is just a pet peeve of mine. It is getting REDICULOUS the number of useless posts in a thread on this web board, and something needs to be done! For example: see this thread: http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=226893 There is almost 20 pages of posts but there is probably 1 page of useful information. I think the main reason is people are just trying to increase their post count.

Sorry for the off-topic post, but it is time people start passing this message around!

Rob--If you want me to remove this post, just let me know, and I will right away. I do believe it will help make the thread more managable in the long run though!

Brad
 

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Can I just get one of these guys to bolt up to the front? Run a 9b/13t combo with 450cc's?
 

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VR4 Henry said:
Can I just get one of these guys to bolt up to the front? Run a 9b/13t combo with 450cc's?
That is the first thing talked about in the first post. Just read the top 3 lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes the update is my machinist freaking went out of town without sending me my wastegate bracketry, I am going to have to see if I know someone who can bust in and get them cause they are made and ready to roll. I really hope you were kidding about that rent a car stuff cause if so you shoulda done the core plan man!

Rob

92rtawd said:
Any updates? Rental car costs are killing me! :D

All others not to be a dick but I literally spent one complete Sunday answering every question I believe I have ever gotten and collected and made into a nice tutorial for everyone to use and learn from so I really dont want to reiterate it over and over like the last thread. It is 99.9% likely that all feasible questions are answered in the first 3 posts of this thread. And if you find there is a question that has gone unanswered feel free to post it and I will update my first 3 posts to include the answer if possible
 

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LeMoN1438 said:
I have a friend who has a WRX turbo but he said that when he took the nut off the top of the inlet turbine wheel wheel and then tried to install the nut back on it messed the turbo up. The wheels spin freely without the nut in place but he said when he put it back in the wheels wouldnt spin anymore. Should i buy this turbo and what problems could occur from this?
-Ryan
How could that happen or is he a newb at turbos and put the bolt on too tight or something?
 

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RobBeck said:
Yes the update is my machinist freaking went out of town without sending me my wastegate bracketry, I am going to have to see if I know someone who can bust in and get them cause they are made and ready to roll. I really hope you were kidding about that rent a car stuff cause if so you shoulda done the core plan man!

Rob
Yeah, I was kidding about the rental car. :) I'm driving my girlfriends Escort ZX2. Nothing makes you appreciate your 3S more than driving an Escort for a few weeks. Especially when you have to use the AC.
 
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