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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Turbo and NA 328-355 mm StopTech Brake Kits!

Hi Everyone!

UPDATE 4/6/04: Now shipping!

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Supercar Engineering is currently in the process of collaboration with StopTech on the design of brake upgrade systems for all Dodge Stealth and Mitsubishi 3000GT models.

The unique features of StopTech kits are:
  • Tested and designed specifically for the 3/S cars with caliper pistons sized to optimize the brake balance and ABS performance.
  • StopTech ST-40 four-piston caliper utilizes a unique patented bolt-in bridge, making it three times stiffer than comparable calipers, which results in less vibration and noise, and better pedal feel due to less flexing.
  • Superior and unmatched quality!
  • StopTech Patent Pending AeroRotors® are manufactured at QS-9000 registered facilities. They flow more air than any rotor available, meaning less brake fade and longer rotor and pad life.
  • StopTech 7075-T6 billet aluminum AeroHats® are directionally vented for improved cooling.
  • Floating drive system with a unique Inconel® spring washer anti-rattle system allows for rotor expansion due to heat and virtually eliminates rotor warping.
  • Stainless steel braided brake lines for improved brake control.
  • Red or Black calipers are standard, other colors are available.
  • Available with a widest selection of brake pads.
  • Available for all Turbo and NA 3S models!


If you remember, StopTech kits took top three places in the brake competition during 2002 Sports Compact Car shootout where a 3/S car came second to last. These are great kits and StopTech is really a top-notch company.

The kits will be available exclusively through Supercar Engineering. I was asked to advertise discounts only during the product introduction period. I will not be able to do that later. Here it goes:

3000GT/Stealth NA - 328x28 mm AeroRotors - $1,895.
3000GT/Stealth Turbo - 332x32 mm AeroRotors - $1,995.
3000GT/Stealth Turbo - 355x32 mm AeroRotors - $2,595.

If you want to reserve the pricing I am asking only for a fully refundable $199 downpayment just to demonstrate your intent to buy. This would help me and StopTech plan the orders. Please specify which kit and if red or black color. Red and black are standard colors. Optional colors are $200. Yellow, silver and blue are the other colors that are available.

The kits uses standard-shaped Porsche brake pads. Axxis Ultimate come as standard brake pads with all StopTech kits. Other available options are Carbotech, Hawk, PFC, Porterfield, Ferodo, Pagid, you name it! Replacement brake pads are abundant.

Slotted rotors are standard. Plain are available for free. Drilled is a $100 option.

The 332 mm turbo kits fit stock 2nd gen turbo 17" wheels. The 355 mm turbo kits fit stock 2nd gen turbo 18" wheels. The NA kits will fit either wheel from the above, the 17" 97-99 SL wheels and probably many other wheels too. I can check which kit would fit into 1st gen 17" TT wheels if someone is interested. It is likely to fit moswt custom wheels too. For custom wheels I will have templates that you can print, cut out and see if the kit fits your wheels.

I am now taking orders. Email me at [email protected]. My website states payment options (PayPal, cards, check).

Related links:
StopTech website
StopTech Balanced Brake Upgrades
Why StopTech?
StopTech ST-40 brake calipers description
StopTech directionally vented floating AeroRotors

UPDATE, 1/28/04:
Here are the templates to check the wheel clearances. A template needs to be printed, cut out with scissors and inserted into one of your dismounted wheels to see if it fits.

NA 328 mm: http://supercar-engineering.com/pdf/ST-3SNA-328-Front.pdf
Turbo 332 mm: http://supercar-engineering.com/pdf/ST-3STT-332-Front.pdf
Turbo 355 mm: http://supercar-engineering.com/pdf/ST-3STT-355-Front.pdf

Philip

NOTE: These are the front only kits. Contact me if you want a four wheel kit.
 

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that's pretty cool that someone's finally developed upgraded n/a brakes for a decent price. what kind of improvement does ur 4 piston caliper have over the stock vr4 4 piston caliper?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Black_Sunshine said:
that's pretty cool that someone's finally developed upgraded n/a brakes for a decent price. what kind of improvement does ur 4 piston caliper have over the stock vr4 4 piston caliper?
It is an upgrade for turbo cars, so for NA cars it is "skip-level" upgrade. Actually, probably a skip two levels upgrade because your are upgrading your calipers and rotors too.

There isn't anything like it out there like StopTech rotors. The closest comparison would be the Brembo Gran Turismo kit from Tirerack for twice the price. Even though their rotors are floating too, only StopTech has the floating rotor system that is inherently quiet and maintenance-free. It is a huge upgrade no matter how you look at it. Check out the bullet points above.

Philip
 

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Aghhhh
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Damn Philip. This is great news :) I've been wondering if someone would get together with StopTech and get a set made for us.

Will you be selling these once the initial purchase is over?

Is there any chance of getting braking benchmarks from StopTech's test car? (I seem to remember reading that they install and test every kit they design, rather than just going from measurements like some folks do)
 

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"The Fisherman"
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very nice phillip... do you think that i should go with the n/a kit instead of performing the 1st gen TT brake swap? although i already have the front calipers, i could re-sell them if getting the stop tech kit would be an easier solution (then buying all the misc parts i would have to buy to complete the TT brake upgrade that does add up close to the stop tech n/a kit price)...also does the kit come with brake pads?
 

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Supercar said:
It is an upgrade for turbo cars, so for NA cars it is "skip-level" upgrade. Actually, probably a skip two levels upgrade because your are upgrading your calipers and rotors too.
saying it's an upgrade and proving it's an upgrade are two very different things. i don't mean to sound like an ass, but i'm coming from a point of view where i have never heard of stoptech brakes. I've never seen test results for it compared to stock vr4 calipers. I think you have a good setup, but i guess i'd just like to see the numbers. u said the 3s came in second to last in the sport compact challenge, but there are a few notes u left out. the vr4 was a spyder which invariably weighs heavier than standard coupes. the brakes had stock calipers (lord knows he didn't spend money on making the car faster). lastly, he was competing with cars that were lighter or with upgraded brakes.

trust me, the last thing i want to do is offend a new tuner :) please don't take anything i said offensively, but offering a 4 piston caliper and telling me it's better than my 4 piston caliper needs some proof to back it up.

ps- the gran tourismo brake package can be had for $3k from DR ($500 over ur list price)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A correction and a couple of additions:

The 332 mm turbo kits fit stock 2nd gen turbo 17" wheels. The 355 mm (corrected from 332 mm) turbo kits fit stock 2nd gen turbo 18" wheels. The NA kits will fit either wheel from the above, the 17" 97-99 SL wheels and probably most other wheels too. I will provide wheel fitting templates upon request.

Slotted rotors are standard. Plain are available for free. Drilled is a $100 option.

The kits use standard-shaped Porsche brake pads. Axxis Ultimate come as standard brake pads on all StopTech kits. Other available options are Carbotech, Hawk, PFC, Porterfield, Ferodo, Pagid, you name it! Replacement brake pads are abundant.

For turbo kits red and black calipers are standard colors. The NA kits come standard in black anodized color with other colors as an option. Optional colors are $200. Yellow, silver and blue are other colors available.

Color pictures:
http://www.stoptech.com/catalog1003a.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #9
upyun said:
are different brake pad replacements extra money?

and are the rotors coated with anything?
Brake pads that are more expensive cost extra money. Cheaper brake pads cost less money. Go here and click search, search and search 3 times and you will see a list of pads that StopTech has.

The rotors are coated with a solution for shipping and storage only. Once they start working the pads wipe off all the visible corrosion. The aluminum rotor hats come close enough to the friction surface, so brake pads do a good job of keeping the rotor surface clean.

Philip
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Will you be selling these once the initial purchase is over?
Absolutely, Jeff! But right now I am offering these promotions and it is probably the best time to get a kit. It is possible to reserve a kit at that price for a delivery in the future. The downpayment is fully refundable if you change your mind.

very nice phillip... do you think that i should go with the n/a kit instead of performing the 1st gen TT brake swap? although i already have the front calipers, i could re-sell them if getting the stop tech kit would be an easier solution (then buying all the misc parts i would have to buy to complete the TT brake upgrade that does add up close to the stop tech n/a kit price)...also does the kit come with brake pads?
If you ask me, get a StopTech kit. It is a better kit and a better value than TT calipers (see my earlier post about that comparison). It will work better and look nicer too. Yes, a set of pads is included.

saying it's an upgrade and proving it's an upgrade are two very different things. ... ... i have never heard of stoptech brakes.
Cars running StopTech

Two World Challenge Cars Running StopTech Ranked in the Top 10

StopTech Rotors Enable a Class Win and Go the Full 25 Hours of Thunderhill
ps- the gran tourismo brake package can be had for $3k
The 355 mm StopTech kit is a better kit than the F50 GT kit. I can say that without any hesitation. It is a balanced upgrade. All other parameters ar the same or better. Not to mention the price! You can read more about balanced brake upgrades here (find the F50 on the chart), here and here.

Philip
 

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Discussion Starter #12
AllEyezOnMyVR4 said:
so id have to go with a 355mm cuz i have an 18'' rims correct??
Either 355 or 332 mm are the kits for turbo cars. Both would work. If your wheels allow bigger is better from the durability and heat management standpoint.

Philip
 

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How much bigger are the pads from a StopTech caliper, and a stock TT caliper? Can you do a side by side shot of the two pads?
 

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Whats with the boomerang?
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The only thing i want to know is one the N/A set will they fit inside my 17" Konig Imagine wheels. If not then it looks like stock breaks for me for ever. I just bought new rotors so i wouldn't be buying a BB upgrade for a while. But if these turn out well they will be on my list. Now can you do anything about a saturn kit, lol. Because sooner than i need new brakes on my stealth my saturn will be putting down more wheel horsepower.
 

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Given comments for and against my own options and such I feel compelled to make one here.

I'd figured it to be only a matter of time before that nifty, multi colored chart comes in to play with new brake kit offerings. And it was only a matter of time before Phil picked up the buzz words of this company (not to mention all their sales literature cut and pasted) but I'm not certain he nor others here fully understand what they are reading about.

Happily the chart is spelled out rather well in the latest GRM. Timely in fact for me as I was having the same conversations with others on a different car and needed a way to better explain it. Thanks to ST for doing the leg work to make it clearer for everyone! So, what's the deal on this and the car in question here? Well, first after reading the article and understanding the difference between static bias and dynamic bias you can better understand what is being said.

However, to make comments on anothers product to be inferior (the F50) when comparing to the linked chart is just purely speculation. The car in the chart is an Audi, your car is not. Ask to see the 3000GT chart. No, of course there isn't one. But that's ok as long as you understand what is being compared to what. The TT has (to my calcs) about a 72/28 bias split from the factory. I don't know what the Audi has but even if close we CANNOT make blanket comparrisons as Phil has wished to do. First we need to compare the spes (rotor dia, piston area and pad Cf) of the Audi and the TT. Only then can the comparrisons of the F50 caliper be realized in true manner. I doubt this caliper will be as 'over front biased' on the TT as it is on the Audi. We need to know the dia of the Audi rotors, TT rotors to do some more math. Assuiming perhaps a 11" rotor on the Audi then those calipers will in fact represent the changes in the bias, but when paired with the larger rotors of the TT we will see some changes. Granted I don't know the diameter of the Audi but I don't believe it to be as large as your TT.

Now when adding brakes to the front (back to that GRM article) I target about 5% increase in the rear bias when putting things together. Can't always do this what I work with but come close. If choosing to use only the 'chart' it quite easy to say that balanced is when we achieve this number (funny we work at about the same levels huh?) by simply de tuning the fronts to favor the rears more. But in return the added mass up front (and good cooling) helps prevent the pads from over heating. We can 'balance' your brakes with some single piston floaters off the na if you want to. But of course they won't hang in there too long either.

Back to the chart. Let's make a change to static bias. Put in a sticky front pad. Whoa! So much for balance. Huh? A .02 change in Cf nets about a 1% change in bias. Conversly smaller pistons reduce the bais, larger rotors increase it. It's all about what works with what. So, if you put some 'stuff' pads up front the bias goes to hell and the fronts over heat. Counter with larger rotor and mondo pistons and the whole thing goes out the window! Now it gets complicated. The term staic applies to what the hydrolics do only and the math to calculate it. Mix in some other things and you have DYNAMIC bias. (read the article guys) This means what works on the street doesn't always work on the track. What changes dynamic bias?? Tires, shock rebound, springs, wheel base, weight distrbution, the track to name a few.....and no I didn't get all this from that article, I've been around it a while too. Glad to see it put in print though; it validates my commments for many years. Thanks GRM! (I'm not certain if the chart was to rep the best tested dynamic bias or not, but achieving this is not that hard to do reallly, and there's no need to actually put all those other parts on the car either; you can find your own 'sweet spot' and plug in the numbers of the other parts and produce the graph)

So what's it all mean? Well, if you put a 'balanced' kit on the car now you may well be tuning later. On the other hand a track balanced kit won't net the benefits on the street you could exploit either. How do you tune? Pads my man, pads and perhaps rotors even if so bold. And of course there's the adjustable proportioning valve to factor in too.......hell, that balance changes with a turn of the knob.

All this being said before jumping up and down over some nifty charts and graphs, be sure you understand what it's really all about. Don't get me wrong; ST prduces some of the finest parts for aftermarket brakes out there and they do a very nice job of buiding kits (and marketing). Their use of floating rotors and the vented hats are nice too. Be sure the person you purchase from fully understands what they are selling however and why. If you need some help it's nice to know that the company is able to work with you to make YOUR car fit that chart too.
 

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Todd TCE said:
ST prduces some of the finest parts for aftermarket brakes out there and they do a very nice job of buiding kits (and marketing). Their use of floating rotors and the vented hats are nice too. Be sure the person you purchase from fully understands what they are selling however and why. If you need some help it's nice to know that the company is able to work with you to make YOUR car fit that chart too.
Supercar Engineering is about to ship my custom four-corner StopTech kit (note that SE offers many options other than ST). Philip was meticulous in his design, and we discussed all aspects of the upgrade, including the impact of rotor size, piston size and pad compound on bias (e.g.- the piston sizes for my front calipers may differ from those in his standard kits due to my particular rear rotor size and caliper configuration). An engineer with real-world track experience, the guy clearly knows what he's doing and strives to accommodate customer requirements within the bounds of a safe and effective system. I look forward to documenting installation and providing my assessment of road and track performance soon.
 

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Hi Philip,
Can you give a pricing on replacement rotor hats and also how long is the refundable deposit good for ? As in pretty much lifetime ? Thanks.

Hi Jim Matthews,
How is England ??? Please let us know how your custom StopTech brake setup will be when u get it installed. I still remember the days when the only Brake Kit option was Brad Bedell's Big Red Kit. :D
 

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bjmsam said:
Supercar Engineering is about to ship my custom four-corner StopTech kit (note that SE offers many options other than ST). Philip was meticulous in his design, and we discussed all aspects of the upgrade, including the impact of rotor size, piston size and pad compound on bias (e.g.- the piston sizes for my front calipers may differ from those in his standard kits due to my particular rear rotor size and caliper configuration). An engineer with real-world track experience, the guy clearly knows what he's doing and strives to accommodate customer requirements within the bounds of a safe and effective system. I look forward to documenting installation and providing my assessment of road and track performance soon.

So you will be gettting a properly matched four corner kit soon. I didn't see anything in the first post about this being a four corner kit. Unless I missed it, the above is a front only kit for $1800+/- is is not? Would you mind sharing your plans, costs, info on the rears with everyone?
 

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Black_Sunshine said:
i have never heard of stoptech brakes
Stop Tech brakes have been around for quite some time and are very very popular among racers. I am surprised you have not heard of them.

Phil, Great work. I actually visited your site a few weeks ago and found these kits on there. This is the main contender for my brake upgrade currently.


and if you attend NG04 and I do too, watch out for me at the AutoX!!
 
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