[touay001]

Hi All,

I would like to give a quick feedback about my kinugawa 20t turbos. Kinugawa Upgrade CHRA Kit MHI 6G72T 3000GT 6+6 TD04HL-20T Anti Surge housing with 9 Blades turbine. After a long time waiting, I finally got the time to finish my build. The car is 1999 VR4 with the following mods:
• Oem internals 6g72
• Adjustable timing gears (+1/-3)
• kinugawa 20t turbos
• Aem EMS S2 /Acc
• Walbro 450 E85 fuel pump hot wired
• PTE 1000CC (will be replaced soon for ID 1050X, E85 friendly)
• Oem ignition
• Dual core FMIC
• K&N air filter
• Aftermarket oil cooler
• CSE center diff
• Quaife front diff
• Rear hybrid diff(H4) oem
• XTD stage 4 6 puck (holding good, but I hate button clutch)
• BC coilovers
• Borla turbo back exhaust
• E85
• lots of other smaller mods

I almost got the tune dialled in. In the process of tunning I had a drive the car at different loads and speeds. I can say that there is almost zero turbo lag if you are in the right gear. If you are in 4th gear at low speed (1800 RPM), then you slam the throttle, it might take a second or so to get into boost. I can see positive pressure as low as 1800 RPM. Quite impressive. Currently, the boost is limited to 15 PSI till I get to the dyno. I took the car to a deserted road and did a second gear run (multiple) and logged the runs. I loaded the last log into Virtual Dyno and the result:

[email protected] and 424lbft [email protected]@14.6PSI

The dip around 5300RPM is duo to timing being set to 13 degree. @5500 RPM is was set to 19. This is fixed now.Also, I have set AEM to cut ignition at 15 PSI, which is why my run was till 5600 RPM. I have taking the car to red lines multiple times with lower boost (with 9b I was straggling to get to red line lol). I'm planning to run 19 PSI or till I get 500 AWHP, my target. I will be taking the car to the dyno to be tuned for WOT shortly (after I change the injectors). The car idles and drives as stock. It took me a while to get the AEM tuned correctly.

I will be updating this thread with my progress so keep watching.

 

[touay001]

This is the smoothed version of the run

 

[mjannusch]

You need to make pulls in at least 3rd gear to get useful dyno data. You don't have enough log samples in those pulls to make them usable for tuning.

 

[Chris @ Rvenge Performance]

You need to make pulls in at least 3rd gear to get useful dyno data. You don't have enough log samples in those pulls to make them usable for tuning.

matt I know that is traditionally believed, but I have seen identical results tuning my aem series 2 in 2nd or 3rd. If you have laggy turbos or slow widebands it could make a difference.

I normally get the car close in 2nd and do a 3rd and 4th gear pull to verify, but its the same results in virtual dyno and the afr/boost.

 

[mjannusch]

I didn’t notice that the whole pull is only over about 1000 rpm. That’s probably not too bad then. The more samples, the better though.

 

[kywhitelightning]

Use smoothing 1. If there is a large difference from smoothing 1 and 2, the run is likely junk anyway. Smoothing 0 is useless.

What fuel are you using?

Jeff

 

[touay001]

Use smoothing 1. If there is a large difference from smoothing 1 and 2, the run is likely junk anyway. Smoothing 0 is useless.

What fuel are you using?

Jeff

Smoothing 1

I'm Running e85

@mjannusch. Pulling in 3rd gear in the road is not an option since the speed will be way over the speed limit.

The car pulls very hard that I get ignition cut out shortly after I slam the throttle as seen in the graph (running manual boost controller for now). I'm running conservative timing and AFR. Once I get to the dyno and add the aquamist water/meth , I will be more aggressive with the tune. I think I will get the 500HP target around 19 PSI. I know these turbos shine beyond 25 PSI, but I have a stock short block. I will be building a spare engine with forged internal next.

 

[touay001]

Actually I'm might be close to 500HP now. Using
HP = (RPM * T) / 5252
(7300*363)/5252 = 504HP

I need to configure the AEM boost control

 

[mjannusch]

Actually I'm might be close to 500HP now. Using
HP = (RPM * T) / 5252
(7300*363)/5252 = 504HP

I need to configure the AEM boost control

Why would your torque be 363 ft/lbs @ 7300, when torque is already on its way down even though your plots show boost going up a bit? Get the tune dialed in and make a full pull all the way to redline and see where you end up.

 

[touay001]

Why would your torque be 363 ft/lbs @ 7300, when torque is already on its way down even though your plots show boost going up a bit? Get the tune dialed in and make a full pull all the way to redline and see where you end up.

No what I meant is, even if the torque stayed at this level at red line, it should be around 500HP. The torque will go up with more boost of course. I'm done street tuning. I will be taking the car to the dyno for sure.

 

[mjannusch]

Except I guarantee your torque isn't 363 ft/lbs at 7300 rpm. Look at where your torque is headed and you still have 1400 rpm to go. It'll keep dropping on the way there.

Needs quite a bit more boost to see 500.

 

[Blue3kGTSL]

Awesome. I was just thinking about 20ts as an upgrade on my 99, so I'm in for the end result.

Just have one question so far, why did you go with aem and not just chrome?

 

[sexybluelady]

Following, since I also have these turbos'. Similar mod's but I have cams, 3sx cam gears and heads. Nice to see some sort of numbers on the Kinugawa's.

 

[kywhitelightning]

You're not going to see 500hp on any td04 without being near 20psi. As Matt has said, your graph is already trending down in tq. Only way that's coming up is more timing or boost. It's possible you're lacking the next data point to keep it trending up but, you're gonna need to stay in it longer to see if that's the case.

What are your plugs gapped at? 14-15psi with blowout isn't good. Do not continue to push it with misfire issues in power. Get the issue resolved and then try again.

Jeff

 

[anh165]

From many dyno charts of the 6G72 with stock heads & cams, torque at 7000 rpm is normally 20% lower than that at 5000 rpm.

I would expect WHP to be around 450-470 at 7k rpms with this setup and boost level.

19 psi should take you to 500 whp somewhere along 5500-6500 rpm barring any problems.

 

[touay001]

You're not going to see 500hp on any td04 without being near 20psi. As Matt has said, your graph is already trending down in tq. Only way that's coming up is more timing or boost. It's possible you're lacking the next data point to keep it trending up but, you're gonna need to stay in it longer to see if that's the case.

What are your plugs gapped at? 14-15psi with blowout isn't good. Do not continue to push it with misfire issues in power. Get the issue resolved and then try again.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I don't have spark blowout. I set the AEM to cut fuel at 15 PSI. The manual boost controller is set up to about 17 PSI (don't want to keep opening the hood and missing with it). My spark plugs are gaped at 28thu. They ngk 7 heat range. I don't have any missfire or any issues with ignition at this boost level. Yes I don't expect 500HP at 15PSI, but I thing I can get ther around 19 PSI. The run was 1st gear and second gear to fuel cut. The plot below show the same run but in first gear. I don't take first gear run for anything except to see the power curve.

And AEM Tuner (1st and 2nd) 2nd gear highlighted

AEM Tuner (1st and 2nd) 1st gear highlighted

Injector duty cycle was 75%. It's getting close.

 

[touay001]

From many dyno charts of the 6G72 with stock heads & cams, torque at 7000 rpm is normally 20% lower than that at 5000 rpm.

I would expect WHP to be around 450-470 at 7k rpms with this setup and boost level.

19 psi should take you to 500 whp somewhere along 5500-6500 rpm barring any problems.

I added 3 degrees around 4900 RPM to 5200 RPM and increased the boost to 16.5 and here is the result:

494HP @5971 RPM and 517 lflb @5971 @14.7 PSI ( more like 15.5 PSI) @19 degree timing @5200 and 20 degree @6000 RPM

:welcome: 500HP

 

[kywhitelightning]

Looks like it liked the timing. 500whp on a stock engine at 15.5psi. Nice!!!

How about a pull to redline? You should easily be able to get away with a factory timing table on e85 and this mild of boost.

Jeff

 

[mjannusch]

3 degrees of advance and 1 psi gave you 120+ HP over your previous graph? Errr.... Yeah.

Since you have a hybrid MR rear diff, then you also have a MR-style front diff ring gear and matching center diff pinion in the trans. Your final drive ratio in Virtual Dyno should be set to 4.154 and not 3.869.

 

[kywhitelightning]

A little closer to 2psi than 1. Not sure if he's smoothing afr and boost curves since he disagrees with what vd graphed.

That final drive ratio may put it closer to reality but, the big bump in power in the graph I'm buying. 450-460 I would venture to say isn't too far off. It's still making some steam. He also lost some weight in a very short amount of time but, that's more of a penalty in vd.