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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over in the DSM community many of us have been running E85 for over a year now and experiencing phenomenal results. People are seeing results of 450AWHP on single 16G setups, results only dreamt of using 93 pump gas.

I've seen a common worry among many of the 10:1 TT drivers is knock/detonation. Running E85 is the cheapest and safest way to keep away knock short of running C16. It has been proven more effective than Meth injection over on the DSM forums. Did I mention that E85 is 105-107 octane and 1.93 per gallon?

E85 is less dense than standard gasoline and since injectors are measured by volume it requires more volume to keep your engine running at a healthy airfuel ratio. This translated to easy to use numbers means that running E85 you will need 15-20% MORE fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio and EGTs.

There is much talk of E85 and how it disintegrates rubber fuel lines. This while in theory is true, E85 does contain enough lubrication to run on COMPLETELY factory fuel lines. Ethanol is a better solvent than gasoline and does clean out many deposits so changing your fuel filter after converting to E85 is highly recommended.

You can also run more agressive timing while using E85, I have not personally advanced timing on the 10:1 6G72 so I can't comment on this. It's possible to gain power from this, but, at what risk I don't know. This will also require more advanced engine management software so I'm not going to get in to this in this post. On the 8.5:1 with proper management this would be much more beneficial.

So, what is needed for the conversion from your stock N/A fuel system.

Fuel pump: A hotwired TT pump is sufficient to get your started but a hotwired Supra/300ZX TT/ Walbro 255 would be ideal. For higher horsepower applications a Bosch044 or dual 255's can be used. KenneBell boost-a-pump can also be used in conjunction with these pumps.

Injectors: Skip buying the VR4 injectors and move onto to something a little larger- these are a direct bolt in. For the 10:1 I recommend buying two different injectors.
A: DSM 450cc injectors, these will flow enough to run 15PSI safely on the 10:1 engine using E85 with 9B turbos, and possibly 13Gs. These can be bought for around 100 dollars for 6, which is money well spent. Injector compensation should only be about -6% across the board using these (assuming you do not have any boost leaks), so, these are a good choice to get started with.

B: Evo 560cc injectors, these are also a direct bolt in and supply a good bit more fuel. I would recommend these injectors for anyone running a 10:1 with turbos larger than 9bs. These can be had for under 200 dollars for all 6. Injector compensation should be about -35% across the board using E85. Used in conjunction with a MAFT these are relatively easy to tune with.


Wideband O2
I HIGHLY suggest buying a wideband O2 sensor whenever you are changing out injectors, otherwise you are tuning blindly and much more likely to do catastrophic damage to your engine. A tune is very important when dealing with the 10:1 since the compression is not nearly as forgiving as a it's lower compression counterpart.

Fuel Control
You have quite a few choices in terms of fuel management. Pick whichever one you like the most. I personally like the SAFC2 since it's easy to tune on the fly. Emanage is a good setup as well. A MAFT can be used but it's a bit primitive, although I have not used the new model.

This is everything you need to get yourself started enjoying the benefits of E85!

Note: Those who live in cold enviorments, E85 may cause rough starts and hesistation until the car is warmed up. So, let your car warm up. If you do not want to deal with this you can run a blend of E85/Pump if you really wanted to.

If anyone has anything they would like to add on feel free!

Have fun. (I'm a bit short on time right now but I will add anything I forgot to write a little later.)
 

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Quit while you're ahea
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Thanks for the write up. I have been wanting to do this for a while and since I have most of the stuff already it should be pretty quick and easy. The only bad thing is the availability of the fuel. I have a hard time finding it around here.

thanks again! I will add this to the TT conversion link thread.
 

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Onesteel LTD
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the added timing is thanks to the E85's increased octane rating. Without checking i think its in the vicinity of 104.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Any more info on this?
I've got plenty of information on it, anything in particular you wanted to know?

As for tuning, aim for 14.5-15.5 @ idle- which isn't always possible but try- my car idles 12:1 when cold, then 14.5-15.5 after a long idle, and stop light idle it's lean @ 17-18:1.

At WOT aim for 11:1 on the 10:1 engine, it's plenty safe and lean enough to get some good power out of it.

Be cautious during the winter since E85 does have cold starting issues on lower compression cars during very cold temps. To fight that, E85 manufacturers make a winter blend which is actually E75, although the cold weather will help fend of any knock issues you'd face unless you are really tuning it on the ragged edge (aka, very agressive), just a little information for those in cold weather.\

FWDstealthTT- check DSMtalk.com.
 

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Boosted.
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I plan on going to e-85 for the summer for the following reasons.

Pros: more boost, cheaper gas
Cons:bad gas mileage
but in the end I think it'll be more efficient for my driving.

I already have a Walbro 341 hp (not hotwired) and I'm putting in a an8 ss braided line to my fuel filter. All I would need to run with e85 would be injectors now correct? (Assuming that you need 30% more e85 when compared to 93 octane; not for detonation but fuel) The stock computer should be able to keep the injectors going at the same rate because they are plug and play and the fuel pump will be able to keep up the pressure in the lines.
 

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I plan on going to e-85 for the summer for the following reasons.

Pros: more boost, cheaper gas
Cons:bad gas mileage
but in the end I think it'll be more efficient for my driving.

I already have a Walbro 341 hp (not hotwired) and I'm putting in a an8 ss braided line to my fuel filter. All I would need to run with e85 would be injectors now correct? (Assuming that you need 30% more e85 when compared to 93 octane; not for detonation but fuel) The stock computer should be able to keep the injectors going at the same rate because they are plug and play and the fuel pump will be able to keep up the pressure in the lines.
Anytime you go bigger on injectors you will need to have some type of fuel control if you want it done right. And I would hot wire your fuel pump.
 

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I plan on going to e-85 for the summer for the following reasons.

Pros: more boost, cheaper gas
Cons:bad gas mileage
but in the end I think it'll be more efficient for my driving.

I already have a Walbro 341 hp (not hotwired) and I'm putting in a an8 ss braided line to my fuel filter. All I would need to run with e85 would be injectors now correct? (Assuming that you need 30% more e85 when compared to 93 octane; not for detonation but fuel) The stock computer should be able to keep the injectors going at the same rate because they are plug and play and the fuel pump will be able to keep up the pressure in the lines.
For 9b's, pick up a set of DSM 450's and hotwire your fuel pump. Also, get some sort of AFC. All said and done, these parts could be bought for under $250 (used).
 

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If my pump outflows the need for that much line pressure without a hotwire, why hotwire it? My understanding was that because e85 needs 30% more fuel to burn correctly. and 360 x 1.30 is 468 and 450cc is 4% off which a 4% difference isn't a bad tune stock with the ecu right? or is that not how you tune?
 

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If my pump outflows the need for that much line pressure without a hotwire, why hotwire it? My understanding was that because e85 needs 30% more fuel to burn correctly. and 360 x 1.30 is 468 and 450cc is 4% off which a 4% difference isn't a bad tune stock with the ecu right? or is that not how you tune?
Math...:(

Hopefully someone can chime in about this.
 

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Quit while you're ahea
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If my pump outflows the need for that much line pressure without a hotwire, why hotwire it? My understanding was that because e85 needs 30% more fuel to burn correctly. and 360 x 1.30 is 468 and 450cc is 4% off which a 4% difference isn't a bad tune stock with the ecu right? or is that not how you tune?
Your math is correct but you will need some way of fine tuning. You will be in the ball park but not in play.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
30% is incorrect, it's around 20%. It's not E100 we are talkin' about here.

I would not run E85 without at least an SAFC2 and Wideband 02, since it's not always as straight forward as calculations. They'll get you close but you really need to jump in and find out what's best for you by actually using real time feedback via the WB02.

I run 780cc injectors and I have my car PLUS 17% to make it idle correctly, just a weird litle quirk that I found to be true with other cars running E85 as well. Even with say 450cc injectors, you will still need to richen it up around 15-20% or so at idle to see proper A/Fs.
 

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Quit while you're ahea
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30% is incorrect, it's around 20%. It's not E100 we are talkin' about here.

I would not run E85 without at least an SAFC2 and Wideband 02, since it's not always as straight forward as calculations. They'll get you close but you really need to jump in and find out what's best for you by actually using real time feedback via the WB02.

I run 780cc injectors and I have my car PLUS 17% to make it idle correctly, just a weird litle quirk that I found to be true with other cars running E85 as well. Even with say 450cc injectors, you will still need to richen it up around 15-20% or so at idle to see proper A/Fs.
Thanks for the info man.

I started to sign up for the DSM forum yesterday and between the image verification and the stupid question on my 6th attempt I said fuck it. I hate those GD things! I will try again later when I have more patience.
 

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So whats the price range on this conversion, i have a 93 stealth base, and i wanna run e85 ;P its abundant hear and cheap... full list of parts needed for this?

so far im thinking
vr4 injectors and hotwired tt pump or maybe dohc injectors, Im only shooting for 220-250 whp then ill invest in an rt/tt
some kind of fuel control?? Don't know much about tuning never owned a turbo car or tuned...
and wideband am I missing anything?
 

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I'm going e85 in the vr4 and I have 13t turbos and 720cc injectors, afc2, wideband ect. Are the 720 injectors overkill or are they OK. Also do I have to change out fuel lines to lines that are made for e85. And what size fuel pump size would work best with this setup. I'm thinking about going 19t turbos later or just jump to 16g evos.
 

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I'm going e85 in the vr4 and I have 13t turbos and 720cc injectors, afc2, wideband ect. Are the 720 injectors overkill or are they OK. Also do I have to change out fuel lines to lines that are made for e85. And what size fuel pump size would work best with this setup. I'm thinking about going 19t turbos later or just jump to 16g evos.
The 720s will be good for around 500AWHP on ethanol so you should be good. I'm not sure if the 720s will work on the SAFC2, but you're effectively flowing 30% more fuel flow so the injectors will act more like 500cc. I ran 1000cc injectors on a piggyback that was only capable of 720cc because of using ethanol so I say give it a shot. You'll know quickly if you can't tune the car.

You don't have to change out the fuel lines, fuel filter, or fpr. Mine are all stock, I maxed out 1000cc injectors on E70, and run a Walbro 485 fuel pump. You won't see 600-650AWHP so I know you'll be good. I recommend upgrading the fuel rail loop if you do push too much past 500AWHP on E85. Ray saw it a restriction at 600AWHP but I wouldn't chance it starving some fuel to the rear bank at higher power levels.

If you get 19Ts you'll want some 1000cc injectors on E85 and a different engine management like a flashed ecu with chrome on it. If you go for 16Gs you'll want to bump up the injectors to 1200-1400cc. I would go ahead and get an E85 Walbro 400 so you won't have to upgrade as soon in the near future. You should be good for 700-750AWHP on E85 with the single pump.
 

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Thank you for the great information man. I have the bigger fuel rail and loop and fuel pressure regulator. So I should go with a 400 fuelpump and when I move to 19t or 16g it will still push it. What size injectors would u think I should of went with with the 13t for my afc2 to be happy and workout. I'm just doing the 13t till I have $$ for internals for the 19t and 16g I have a 92 so I'm cast crank
 
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