Mitsubishi 3000GT & Dodge Stealth Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
AEM Veteran
Joined
·
2,061 Posts
Hmm...very interesting. It's got a bit of a snake oil feel to it because it's so simple, but he's not selling anything, so who knows?

After looking through all his examples, it looks like the basic idea is to cut a groove from the main combustion chamber into the thin "squish" area. On our heads, you'd probably want two grooves - one starting between the exhaust valves, and one starting between the intake valves.

Like this Celica head, which was the only 4 valve example I could find that was similar to our heads: http://somender-singh.com/content/view/42/37/

I wonder though, if a sharp edge on the groove might make for a hot spot in the combustion chamber and make the head less boost-friendly? Maybe if you smoothed out the edges...
 

·
Ninja Performance
Joined
·
42,337 Posts
FWombat said:
Hmm...very interesting. It's got a bit of a snake oil feel to it because it's so simple, but he's not selling anything, so who knows?

After looking through all his examples, it looks like the basic idea is to cut a groove from the main combustion chamber into the thin "squish" area. On our heads, you'd probably want two grooves - one starting between the exhaust valves, and one starting between the intake valves.

Like this Celica head, which was the only 4 valve example I could find that was similar to our heads: http://somender-singh.com/content/view/42/37/

I wonder though, if a sharp edge on the groove might make for a hot spot in the combustion chamber and make the head less boost-friendly? Maybe if you smoothed out the edges...
but he IS selling, he has patented it so any use of it would have to be purchased (rights) from him.
 

·
AEM Veteran
Joined
·
2,061 Posts
Import Power said:
but he IS selling, he has patented it so any use of it would have to be purchased (rights) from him.
I dunno...from what I gather, he'd like to sell his idea to large companies. But he's got a forum going where he actively gives out free advice to folks and laying out his ideas. Usually snake-oil type stuff (like that damn tornado intake thing!) works the opposite way: they try to sell straight to individuals.

From a conceptual level, I can maybe see the grooves helping to create turbulence on the compression stoke, as the squished gasses flow through the channels. Maybe not though; who knows? It's just one of those free simple mods that are always so tempting. :)
 

·
-
Joined
·
6,786 Posts
Interesting.

I like how they tested on an old school engine design to come up with a bigger improvement # afterwards. :p

"After this simple design change - Obsolete Side Valve engines which feature large quench areas - when fully loaded to the max at 2000 rpms on a dyno have shown a reduction of 42.5 % fuel consumption ( BSFC) and further producing more torque & power at lower operating temperatures in comparison to a stock engine. ( ARAI results)"

Obviously your not gonna se a 42% reduction in fuel consumption if you cut grooves in one of our DOHC mitsu heads. :p
 

·
I kill brakes
Joined
·
4,790 Posts
Yea, he admits that this works best on older engines with large quench areas (he doesnt have any newer engines to try it on), I have the actual mag. Nice idea, just doesn't have much potential for engines with very small quench areas because the chamber is filled with valve.
 

·
AEM Veteran
Joined
·
2,061 Posts
This was my biggest "no" factor: that we don't have much of a quench area in our heads to begin with, and the area we do have is split on opposite sides of the chamber. If these grooves really do what he thinks they do, we wouldn't see nearly the gains that older platforms see.

But...it's essentially a free mod, and any gains at all would be cake as long as there weren't any drawbacks.
 

·
I kill brakes
Joined
·
4,790 Posts
Sharp edges create hot spots, which lead to detonation.....thats the one drawback I see.
 

·
92 Dodge Stealth
Joined
·
402 Posts
My question is this, the idea of the squish band and center plug, and hemi chamber is to promote a smooth flame font. turbulance will cost you power if you have flame waves bounceing they will begin to cancel each other like waves in water.
 

·
*Insert Evil Laughter*
Joined
·
3,141 Posts
interesting indeed. yeah our cars don't seem to be a good model for it though. I wonder how much it would lower compression? barely? not at all? or noticable. I'd love to try it.. but not on a 3S ;)

I also wonder if it would give our headgaskets a shorter life under high boost... directing energy outward perhaps?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
i talked to someone about this. they had heared of the idea quite awhile ago, and basicalytold me if you were to run really REALLY crappy gas, it would make a very large difference, buit since the quality of gas is so great in the US, there will be very small benefits to doing this..
 

·
Mitsu in disguise
Joined
·
148 Posts
What I´m wondering is what happens in the long run, the sharp edges around the groove might melt and leave metal-residue in the combustionchamber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,737 Posts
Like blowing out chunks of your block, trasnfer case and bell housing werent enough. This guy wants you to carve grooves into the head, to provide yet another explosion point.

The idea might be great, for n/a vehicles or like a honda or something.

Give him a turbo and see if he can carve grooves in it to spool faster and displace more air. Then I'd jump on the bandwagon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,737 Posts

·
resident evil
Joined
·
17,080 Posts
What if you made the grooves, blended the edges so no sharp spots and coated the combustion chamber and piston? Then you would not have the hot spots on the edges and would still have a channel for gases to follow. Trick flow heads have small diverters in the chambers to promote swirl and I think a stock Mitsu head has a little triangle bump cast into the head as well which probably does something to help combustion. I am just wondering why no head porters do anything like this if this has been known for some time and is beneficial with no down sides?...seems simple enough if it works
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
353 Posts
I don't know if that's the same guy, but I know there is someone who was putting grooves similar to that in the head to improve the air/fuel mixture for motorcycles.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top