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Aussie Bloke
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929 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Guys,
I'm thinking of getting front and rear strut bars and as such I asked one of the serious racers here about them. He had a look at the bars available for the GTO and said the only front bar he would consider is the Pit road M one, and I quote "the ebay one would be as effective as a lettuce".

So I'm asking you guys is he right, or is the ebay/3SX flat bar type OK ?
 

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Slow Learner
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7,084 Posts
Ebay strut bar? No way.



Best design right there. Absolutely NO flex. Honestly, I never understood why guys think that a simple bar across the strut towers wont flex... of course they will flex. There's a LOT of stress going on.



3 point strut bar ftw.
 

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Cianci FTW
 

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Born To Build
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533 Posts
Ebay strut bar? No way.



Best design right there. Absolutely NO flex. Honestly, I never understood why guys think that a simple bar across the strut towers wont flex... of course they will flex. There's a LOT of stress going on.



3 point strut bar ftw.
Cianci FTW
Yah that design looks great! But $355 bucks!! Damn!!!
 

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Slow Learner
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7,084 Posts
You pay for quality... paying for crap performs like crap.
 

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Born To Build
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533 Posts
You pay for quality... paying for crap performs like crap.
VERY VERY true. Just saying 355 is alot...I wonder if you could get a cheaper one and weld the other 2 braces on??? LOL
 

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Aussie Bloke
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929 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
There is a thread where Cianci are asking for 10 people to order these, for IIRC about $165.. I've signed up.. (depending on postage to my side of the world)
 

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Registered
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1,274 Posts
Ebay strut bar? No way.



Best design right there. Absolutely NO flex. Honestly, I never understood why guys think that a simple bar across the strut towers wont flex... of course they will flex. There's a LOT of stress going on.



3 point strut bar ftw.
The non-triangulated bars if substantial enough, AND if our towers really do move under load will keep the towers from moving in and out. They could conceivably move forward and back without the triangulation.

I really like the fact the bars you have are triangulated to the firewall, but the actual bar across the towers looks a bit inadequate to keep the towers from flexing inward. The pieces to the firewall do not add to the rigidity between the towers. It does seem the bar is a bit pricey. The TEC bars ( Front Strut Bar for Mitsubishi 3000GT and Dodge Stealth, Increase handling and chassis stiffness. ) are $300 but not triangulated. They do have extra gussets on the underside where the bar curves. As someone else suggested I'd get these and consider fabricating pieces that bolt to the bar and firewall. Uhhh ...... I already have both the front and rear TEC bars. Had them for 5 or 6 years.

I'm sure if Chris at TEC had enough requests he'd consider the addition of triangulation. Also, he designs them in SolidWorks (similar to AutoCAD) and then stresses the design in SolidWorks to ensure there is no flex of his bars under extreme loading. One of the reasons for the gusseting. He was not satisfied with the original design under load conditions.
 

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<3's lapping days
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3,275 Posts
Stainless Steel




Works GOOD! Well, I am guessing its probably stiffer laterally than anything in the car.

Make your own! Its fun, you learn a lot about how to make stuff like this, plus you can be proud of it. Pitroad M's from Ralliart3000gt is 450 dollars plus shipping... I spent about 30-40 hours making this one and I think I paid about 150 dollars for the steel (8 foot round tube, a couple 12"x12" plates, and some half inch round stock for the center box cross bar.

That cianci one looks good, if you can find one, or get him to make them again. You can pay 450 for the Carbin/Okuyama/ralliart3000gt one, or you can find a Supermac bar on ebay for around 100...
 

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Does the Cianci one require shimming up the hinge for the 1st generation bonnet in order for it to close properly? I know the Pit Road M one does and kind of spoils the lines of the car. Probably improves cooling though.
 

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Creator of weird stuff...
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4,116 Posts
I ended up getting a front strut bar from Terry "One of his old Maximal Performance Solid strut bars" It is very rigid! I had to make some adjustments to it as I was unable to close my hood all of the way. I tried standing on the bar to bend it out a little. Well all 200lbs of me did nothing and the bar barely flexed under my weight.

Remember that this is downward force applied to the center of the bar. When the strut it attached the force applied is inward from the strut towers. To test the rigidity I places a lump of lay on the bar and shut the hood. Reopened the hood and measured the size of the lump. This tells me the distance between the top of the strut bar and the underside of the hood. I then replaced the clay and took the car for a nice hard drive down some curvy country back-roads. When I got how and measure the clay block it was only 1/16" smaller then originally. So this tells me the strut bar only flexed 1/16th on an inch. I would say that it is pretty sturdy.

I am not a fan of round bar/tube as it flex's more that square tube/bar.

With Cianci's bar the main bar in offset forward or the center of the strut towers. This is so that when the struts do flex the bar will not bend horizontal toward the roof but rather flex toward the front of the car and maybe a little upward. Hence the need for the reinforcement bars attaching it to the firewall.

The problem I see with their design is that the strut towers only really flex under hard steering. With Cianci's bar if you take a hard left turn it is going to force the FL tower inward but their bar design is going to force the FR tower horizontal and forward which will throw off the caster and camber until the turn is completed.

With a standard strut bar like the Maximal Performance bar, it will only throw off the camber slightly as the bar only flexes horizontally.

My info is really based off of 3D physics so I may be missing a few things,
Or be completely off my bonkers.....:)
 

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With Cianci's bar the main bar in offset forward or the center of the strut towers. This is so that when the struts do flex the bar will not bend horizontal toward the roof but rather flex toward the front of the car and maybe a little upward. Hence the need for the reinforcement bars attaching it to the firewall.

The problem I see with their design is that the strut towers only really flex under hard steering. With Cianci's bar if you take a hard left turn it is going to force the FL tower inward but their bar design is going to force the FR tower horizontal and forward which will throw off the caster and camber until the turn is completed.

With a standard strut bar like the Maximal Performance bar, it will only throw off the camber slightly as the bar only flexes horizontally.

My info is really based off of 3D physics so I may be missing a few things,
Or be completely off my bonkers.....:)
Any force applied to the wheels (pavement heaves, potholes, uneven surfaces) could also cause tower movement. But till we find someone that has actually measured movement under different load conditions, we proponents of tower bars are still guessing.
 

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Creator of weird stuff...
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4,116 Posts
i should be going up to VIR in the next couple months. I'll do some runs with and without the bar and post up results.
 

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*Insert Evil Laughter*
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3,141 Posts
i should be going up to VIR in the next couple months. I'll do some runs with and without the bar and post up results.
often installing a bar requires a new alignment.. so I'm not sure how accurate of a test you would get.. but I notice a huge difference with even a supermac bar which I started with and I feel is probably bottom of the rung. After installing it I felt I needed to turn the wheel far less in a hard tight corner and could point it where I wanted it with more accuracy, also faster response. I now run a pit road M. I feel it is just as good as a 3 point. looks tons better (like stock almost) and I can easily remove my plenum. Until I can get a full X brace that is easy to remove for servicing (IE maybe never) this is my bar.

 

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I ended up getting a front strut bar from Terry "One of his old Maximal Performance Solid strut bars" It is very rigid! I had to make some adjustments to it as I was unable to close my hood all of the way. I tried standing on the bar to bend it out a little. Well all 200lbs of me did nothing and the bar barely flexed under my weight.

Remember that this is downward force applied to the center of the bar. When the strut it attached the force applied is inward from the strut towers. To test the rigidity I places a lump of lay on the bar and shut the hood. Reopened the hood and measured the size of the lump. This tells me the distance between the top of the strut bar and the underside of the hood. I then replaced the clay and took the car for a nice hard drive down some curvy country back-roads. When I got how and measure the clay block it was only 1/16" smaller then originally. So this tells me the strut bar only flexed 1/16th on an inch. I would say that it is pretty sturdy.

I am not a fan of round bar/tube as it flex's more that square tube/bar.

With Cianci's bar the main bar in offset forward or the center of the strut towers. This is so that when the struts do flex the bar will not bend horizontal toward the roof but rather flex toward the front of the car and maybe a little upward. Hence the need for the reinforcement bars attaching it to the firewall.

The problem I see with their design is that the strut towers only really flex under hard steering. With Cianci's bar if you take a hard left turn it is going to force the FL tower inward but their bar design is going to force the FR tower horizontal and forward which will throw off the caster and camber until the turn is completed.

With a standard strut bar like the Maximal Performance bar, it will only throw off the camber slightly as the bar only flexes horizontally.

My info is really based off of 3D physics so I may be missing a few things,
Or be completely off my bonkers.....:)
Is the Maximal strut bar similar to the SuperMac one (Ultimate Performance)? If it is I'll probably settle for that one. :bandit:
 

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GTO's a happening
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14,001 Posts
Cianci FTW
That's the PRM designed one. Pretty sure cianci just copied or based their's off it.

Pete - if they do a GB for $165, get on that but shipping will be in the order of about $200 alone. My pillar pod I ordered from them was $160 and while the brace isn't as long, it's got more weight.

Scotty
 

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Creator of weird stuff...
Joined
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4,116 Posts
Is the Maximal strut bar similar to the SuperMac one (Ultimate Performance)? If it is I'll probably settle for that one. :bandit:

Same thing. Truthfully I believe that the Supermac one is a stolen design from Maximal. Or maybe it's the ones on Ebay that are the stolen designs. I can never remember. But yeah they are the same design. I just got mine used directly from Terry at MP.
 

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Aussie Bloke
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929 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
That's the PRM designed one. Pretty sure cianci just copied or based their's off it.

Pete - if they do a GB for $165, get on that but shipping will be in the order of about $200 alone. My pillar pod I ordered from them was $160 and while the brace isn't as long, it's got more weight.

Scotty
I'm probably prepared to pay $350 landed anyhow..
I won't have the time to fabricate one for ... ever...

hey hang on a second, what are you doing in a racing thread.. Don't tell me you're planning on coming down to the track ????? or did you just get here by mistake ??
 

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GTO's a happening
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14,001 Posts
lol... NEW POSTS then here we are. One day I'll be rockin up with you, then you'll regret ever inviting me. :p

Scotty
 
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