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I'm going with the Evans. Since it's lifetime and can be reused, it'll be the last $150 I ever have to spend on the car for coolant.
And then you develop a leaky hose, wp, or radiator. It's not lifetime after it leaks out....
 

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Discussion Starter #22
And then you develop a leaky hose, wp, or radiator. It's not lifetime after it leaks out....
Very true. I'll research the aspects of leaks on a low-no pressure cooling system but you have a good point. If you develop a leak on the road you'd mess up the whole deal with water.

I might try reaching out to Leno and see what he says.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I've gotten a response from Evans. I'm going to reply later - I'll post that too.

Hi Max, thank you for your inquiry.

We can advise you how best to use Evans Waterless Coolant in this application, but we would need some more information;

What modifications have you made to the engine, tuning and cooling system? What horsepower level are you at?

What configuration of Intercooler are you using? Do you measure turbo discharge temps?

Have you made modifications to improve airflow through the engine compartment?

Does ambient air temperature make a difference in your running temps?

What are the specs on your new proposed radiator?

What is your "target temperature" for the driving events you have described?

Are you experiencing driveability problems, detonation under boost, power "derating" or other computer tuning issues?

Evans waterless is very efficient, and will readily pick up heat out of the cylindrer heads and other areas, with greater control than water-based coolant has at elevated temps. Your described 200 degree gauge temperature is still well inside a normal safe operating range. What is your "pain to solve" or your expectation of improvement? We cannot guarantee lower gauge temps under high engine load just by switching coolants. Coolant flow rate, radiator capacity, and especially airflow are very important to optimize correctly for the application, and this vehicle is limited in these respects.

If you retain the OEM cap location at the engine outlet, we recommend you not change to a lower pressure setting, even with Evans coolant. Evans will avoid boiling, and the expansion of vapor, and you could expect more stable "hot" coolant level with Evans, and less activity between the cooling system and the degas/ expansion tank. Hot liquid coolant is still under "hydraulic" pressure at this cap location, especially at high RPM, and could easily push fluid (unnecessarily) to the overflow with a lower cap setting. Our information indicates that the OE cap on this car is 13 psi (.9 bar), and this seems a bit low at that, for the reason stated.

For changeover, consider that the low mileage vs/ age of this car offers the possibility of existing system corrosion, which should be assessed first. A system "cleaning" with a chemical-flush product may be a good idea. Some aspects of the conversion may be easier if you drain and flush while the radiator is removed. it is necessary to install evans with less than 3% water, and an absolute minimum of residual chemistry from old antifreeze.

Evans High Performance Coolant (p.n. EC53001) is the correct formula for this application. Powersports and HD would work fine, but each has more specific inhibitor packages for the intended applications.

Please contact me directly with any further questions.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Yeah was at work and service was off and on. Lagged post lol.

Edit: May consider this for my upcoming rebuild. :unsure:
Well, keep an eye on the thread. As always I'll be posting far more information than anyone wants.

What I like is the low pressure aspect of the coolant. Really, Jay Leno is who convinced me - his shit is worth a lot more than mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Well, old Pete at Evans replied to my reply of his reply and managed to muddy the waters quite effectively. I thought I had made clear to him that my goal is to see if the addition of using his product would increase the number of pulls or slow the coolant temperature spikes so that if I wanted to, I could accelerate harder more often. You know, like wearing a mask flattens the curve, so would Evans flatten the temp spike curve.

I think that what he's getting at is "don't expect a miracle" by using Evans wherein he's trying to avoid a bitching and whining customer which I am not and wouldn't be.

But he did attach a water vapor document that I'm attaching to this post which I think could be VERY useful for our platform. And could once and for all answer why some owners have mystery overheating issues. Water vapor and hot spots in the water jacket in the heads, which is where most of the heat transfer happens. Imagine a car where .the coolant flow is compromised in some way (blocked radiator, build up in the head jacket, wonky thermostat or under performing water pump).

Here's his reply

Hi Max,

Thanks for the additional info. Your mods appear to be well-thought out, and effective. I didn't find the radiator picture you reference, I am curious about how it could add 50% to the system capacity, and fit in the available space. I did see the Evans thread at 3si.org, and browsed through a portion of it- It's the same back-and-forth about Evans we've seen on dozens of different enthusiast-vehicle boards.

I've reviewed your application with Evans' technical director, Dave Wright. We agree that a change to Evans coolant will not itself accomplish what you're after. The system as-is seems to be adequate for the purpose. More system capacity (i.e. your new bigger radiator) is never a bad idea. At the lower-than-OE-spec temps. you seem to be maintaining, (even under extreme load), there is not so much vaporization of water, so the 50/50 coolant will do the best job, strictly in terms of heat transfer.

You can't expect the outgoing coolant temp to not reflect the increase of heat in the heads under boost. Evans will readily absorb the heat, with control, as I stated yesterday: That is not a promise that it won't get hotter in the process. I have attached a document you may find useful. Please review at your convenience.
Pete

Pete Stowell
Technical Specialist
Sales Representative
Evans Cooling Systems, Inc
888-990-2665
[email protected]
 

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Interesting stuff here fellas. Having raced with Evans for many years now (sometimes illegally) I can shed a tremendous amount of light on the situation.
The vapor doc is absolute gold. What I was experiencing was exactly that in our motors. These hot spots in the heads with traditional coolant (and plain water) will put a lot of air into the system. I tried massive spring caps, swirl pots, and darn near everything else you can possibly imagine to tame the beast going north of 600 real horse. I always have folks that NEVER over heat come to the track and by lap 3 they've boiled over, quite comically as an I told you so. Doing a single drag pull is absolutely nothing compared to track use. Do that drag pull, hard brake to 30 or 40 mph, then do it again. Now do that for 5 mins, or an hour. Most just don't understand until you've been there, but I digress. It's always that the ducting is wrong, the tune is off, etc.. While do have an effect, the typical passenger car is hardly designed for this amount of thermal abuse. Add in more power, a front mount, removed or hacked ducting and you have a recipe of disaster. I spent years getting to where I'm at now and still are progressing and learning what to takes to keep a higher HP car on the track. I'm not going into a soap box session of all the wrong things people do, and from here forward let's assume it's all correct and I'll my car as my example as I have the most experience with it obviously.

I still run a 22 psi cap on my system. Why? It was already there and though the Haltech telem, I monitor coolant pressure. There is a direct correlation between temp and pressure in a pressurized system, mainly from the expansion rate of the fluid. (tossing out the boiling point of water and coolant pressure in this part as we are well below boiling of Evans) What the Evans coolant won't do is vaporize in those hot spots. That is pure gold in any cooling system. This keeps the top of the motor from collecting air gasses, which in turn allows those hot spots to have a liquid present to transfer coolant to. In a water based system, they flash boil and the hot spots get worse. You won't see this on the gauge, but it's happening. When it does show up on the gauge it's too late. With Evans, it's cooling more efficiently by keeping fluid on all of the surfaces all the time, another gold merit there.

I would absolutely run an expansion tank, it DOES EXPAND. Some call it an overflow. Sure, if things go wrong its an overflow, but that plastic bottle (mine is aluminum now) is for expansion. It gets hot, the level goes up. It cools down and it's drawn back into the motor. That way you should never have any air under the cap, period, ever, never ever.

Let's talk temps. You're on the track, watching your mirrors at 150mph, this guy in 'vette is right on your door and the Porsche is diving inside. You're downshifting, coming off of full brakes, turning in and suddenly you have a temp light. This is scary. Are you shedding water now? Boiling over and now have no coolant? In a water based system you need to get off the track.(most folks target 220-240 F for this) There's a very good chance you are boiling over and are most certainly having vapor flash hot spots in the heads. With the Evans, just roll out of the throttle, or better yet, have the ecu drop boost, tweak timing and add a wee bit more fuel. It's consistent, manageable, and predictable. They say you will see higher temps with Evans. I have not. I run a stock thermostat too. In fact, up until 3 weeks ago, I was running an Autopwr Ebay radiator with a couple of crappy fans on the back WITH a front mount IC. What I do see is what I described above, the climbing of temps as thermal saturation is setting in to EVERYTHING. This happens on every car and the only cure is a more efficient cooling system in terms of radiator, ducting, or air flow. (maybe all 3!)

If you want to do an unsettling experiment, put some in a pan with a candy thermometer in it. Looking at completely motionless liquid at 300 degrees when you know it should be boiling is kinda freaky. It's great stuff and it works as advertised 100%. I probably wouldn't drink it though, it smells coolanty.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
If you want to do an unsettling experiment, put some in a pan with a candy thermometer in it. Looking at completely motionless liquid at 300 degrees when you know it should be boiling is kinda freaky. It's great stuff and it works as advertised 100%. I probably wouldn't drink it though, it smells coolanty.
If you guys haven't read the pdf I attached above, you need to. And you need to use it in every "overheating" thread you see. It's that important.

The people at Evans are watching this thread at my behest as you saw in my last post.

I am interested in hearing more about pressurizing the system. I had planned on going low pressure.

Pardon the snip, Erron, but that's the exact point I've made but yours is far more seat of the pants and far deeper into these engines than I've gotten so far.

What I've never mentioned on this forum is that I used to race. A lot. All on the street. Remind me to tell you how I, myself, outran 5 Washtenaw County Sheriffs one night. In the General Lee (440, dual quad, open headers). All my cars had giant NASCAR heads and water jackets. Made it from Ypsilanti, Michigan to Milan dragway, where I worked, in less than 20 minutes. Look it up on a map.

But these S/3 cars are a totally different animal. Thus, my choice of going with Evans and the large cap radiator.
 
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