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Discussion Starter #1
The Stealth is going in next month for some extensive work including a new 3sx high cap radiator. I'm thinking since the water pump and radiator will be out and the system will be empty, I might try Evans waterless coolant instead of water based coolant.

$50 a gallon. I'm thinking 3 gallons.

  • Specifically designed for all modern, classic, and vintage gasoline-powered vehicles, light duty Diesels, LP and CNG vehicles
  • Has a boiling point of 375 DegreeF and will not vaporize, eliminating boilover and after-boil Generates low vapor pressures, prevents coolant loss, and reduces strain on cooling system components
  • Contains no water, effectively eliminating corrosion, liner and water pump cavitation erosion Minimizes the potential for corrosion and electrolysis issues, and reduces maintenance costs
  • Eliminates pre-ignition and engine knock caused by overheating, improving combustion efficiency to deliver more power and improved fuel economy
  • During installation ensure that all of old water-based coolant and water is removed before installing this product


292899
 

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Keep'n 'em spooled
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Erron Spalsbury has been using it for at least several years with good success. You probably know there are two drainage plugs on the block for coolant. Erron made a good suggestion to use a wet/dry vacuum to help clear all of the water out of the block.
 

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I've read about this stuff and I don't believe the hype. Boil-over protection is great and all, but from what I've read the specific heat capacity of that fluid is pretty abysmal. According to their own website you'll most likely see temperature increases of 10-20 degrees Fahrenheit due to it's low specific heat of .64 to .68. A 50/50 water/ethylene glycol solution is about .81 to .88 depending on the temperature, and obviously straight water is right around 1(it is the basis of the measurement after all). So basically the standard mix of coolant can handle about 26.5% more heat overall than the "waterless" stuff.

Basically it won't boil over, but your coolant will be hotter, and your system will have less heat capacity overall by a significant amount. Honestly for cars that seem to have heating problems, this doesn't seem like an ideal solution. I'm no engineer, but I think having a water based coolant system with a higher overall thermal load would be beneficial, especially with water-cooled turbos which tend to spike coolant temps as it is.
 

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Funny, if you look down below my post, you'll see a thread from 2001 ("anyone used Evans coolant")
The price per bottle was $25 and now it's almost $50?
Did they add GOLD to the formula?

I'm with Ross, I'll stick with good ole H20 and Prestone .....

Bob.
 

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If my understanding is correct, water has the best innate ability to transfer heat... there’s no beating it. The antifreeze conponent just keeps the water from boiling off or freezing... a pure antifreeze coolant is likely to underperform a 50/50 mix.
 

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If my understanding is correct, water has the best innate ability to transfer heat... there’s no beating it. The antifreeze conponent just keeps the water from boiling off or freezing... a pure antifreeze coolant is likely to underperform a 50/50 mix.
Well from my basic understanding that isn't necessarily true either. A fluid that is slow to heat, is slow to cool. Water has a much higher specific heat capacity so it can take most heat overall, but is also means it has to expel a bunch more heat to drop in temperature. Something with a lower specific heat heats quicker, but also cools quicker. So mixing water with something with a lower specific heat, like ethylene glycol, lowers yields kinda the best of both worlds. You get decent total heat capacity, decent ability to expel heat, and corrosion protection.

It would seem the waterless coolant would be significantly quicker to heat, and therefore expel heat when cooling , but I'm not exactly sure that's great for a system like a car which kinda strives for a equilibrium at operating temp. I could see this coolant causing a crazy temperature gradient within the system, especially on 1g cars that have the fan switches at the bottom of the radiator, but the ecu/guage temp sensors on the thermostat housing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, that's what I wanted to see, advice. I did add a couple of bottles of a water wetter last spring that did help the "gradient" some - I was able to keep the coolant @ 188 most of the time. The only times it hit 190 was in 90 plus weather.

I'll do some technical reading and see if there is any science behind it. I'll report back later.
 

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The dark shall be with us
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I've read about this stuff and I don't believe the hype. Boil-over protection is great and all, but from what I've read the specific heat capacity of that fluid is pretty abysmal. According to their own website you'll most likely see temperature increases of 10-20 degrees Fahrenheit due to it's low specific heat of .64 to .68. A 50/50 water/ethylene glycol solution is about .81 to .88 depending on the temperature, and obviously straight water is right around 1(it is the basis of the measurement after all). So basically the standard mix of coolant can handle about 26.5% more heat overall than the "waterless" stuff.

Basically it won't boil over, but your coolant will be hotter, and your system will have less heat capacity overall by a significant amount. Honestly for cars that seem to have heating problems, this doesn't seem like an ideal solution. I'm no engineer, but I think having a water based coolant system with a higher overall thermal load would be beneficial, especially with water-cooled turbos which tend to spike coolant temps as it is.
You can just run a cooler thermostat. It's not a hard problem to solve, but the coolant won't boil and since it doesn't boil, you can have a system without an overflow tank and no pressurized system so no leak either.
 

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Marshall Taylor
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Plus 1 with Devilmightcry.

I have used Evans Waterless Coolant for several years now. I have never had an overheating issue. My heads are Stage 3 and ported to the max. My bore is 80 over. I do have a highly modified cooling system. Examples: PWR Radiator, (2) SPAL Fans, Electric Water Pump, Custom coolant reservoir with the pressure cap on the suction side of the system and at the highest point. I have the AEM V2 set to turn on Fan #1 at 185 degrees. The 2nd Fan at 190 degrees. Even after hard pulls I don’t see temps over 195 degrees.

Marshall
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm going with the Evans. Since it's lifetime and can be reused, it'll be the last $150 I ever have to spend on the car for coolant.

It didn't take very long to understand the thermodynamics of using something like Evans. The thing with this stuff is proper prep and proper usage. You need to totally purge the system before using it and you need to replace your cap.

The idea is this. A 50/50 blend has a boiling point very close to the highest temp of the engine so it's heat capacity vanishes under high stress conditions. The waterless has a boiling point much higher so that you have far more reserve capacity before boil off happens.

Now you know how some materials will absorb moisture from the air? It's called a hygroscopic fluid. I used to have a giant chunk of rock salt from a salt mine I was in once (honest). You could tell the amount of humidity in the air by how the thing looked. Well, this Evans stuff is the same way. If you leave it out in the open air, it will ruin it in a very short time.

Let's look at the vapor pressure at 212F.
Water is 760
50/50 is 587
Evans is 28


Here's Leno talking with an Evans rep about it. Leno runs it in some of his cars, like his Bugatti. He uses it in his Merlin engines.


Here's the big one. It's non toxic. You can drink it. It won't kill your pets or little kids.

Death valley test.


Chemical explained.


Thermostat usage with Evans


With your normal coolant at the standard 50/50 mix, the potential for dissipating heat is lower than the no water stuff because it holds the heat longer. We know that the boiling point of a 50/50 blend is 245 F. The safe margin of Evans is 150 F over a 50/50 fluid. Also, you run Evans at a lower pressure which is (obviously) safer for the system.

So water has the figure of 1.0. Evans has a figure of 1.107. Evans boiling point is 375°F. The flashpoint is 248°F. In a car, this crap won't boil ever. This gives Evans a higher potential, i.e. acts as a larger heat sink that dissipates heat faster.

The no water stuff absorbs heat faster (which removes the heat from the engine faster) and expels the heat faster as well. Since the engine is always producing heat, you will not see giant fluxuations in the temp of the coolant, however you will see a lower level of heat soaking in the car since the no water solution removes the heat faster.

The key with the Evans is that you have to have less than 3% water in the system and you CANNOT have pressure in the system as well. They suggested either snipping the spring in the cap or a lower pressure cap.
 

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Marshall Taylor
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Evans has a Cooling System Flush product that will remove the water content left in the system from a 50/50 mix. It may be covered in one of the above videos. I haven’t taken the time to review the videos at this time. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Evans has a Cooling System Flush product that will remove the water content left in the system from a 50/50 mix. It may be covered in one of the above videos. I haven’t taken the time to review the videos at this time. Good luck!
The Leno video covers a lot of the information including the prep fluid.
 

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I don't know, I'm hearing/reading a lot of marketing speak and not a whole lot of science which always makes me skeptical.

Also according to the MSDS Evans waterless coolant is already just 80-85% ethylene glycol by weight....so how can they claim it is non-toxic when it is almost entirely normal antifreeze? Also if it is almost just straight antifreeze what is with the insane price?
 

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Yea...looking around their website now they've seemed to back off the "non-toxic" claim. Their US website doesn't have that claim anywhere anymore, only the old UK website does. I found a picture of the back label of the "high performance" line.




I'm betting their "alcohol dehyrogenase inhibitor" is ethanol. Which in case you didn't know, drinking a few shots of liquor is what you are supposed to do if you accidentally swallow anti-freeze. So basically it would be "non-toxic" in the sense that instead of your liver breaking down the ethylene glycol into the shit that kills you, it is too busy dealing with the included ethanol, and you just piss out the antifreeze.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well shit. No wonder I feel funny. Thought it was the Vodka. On the plus side, I did just see 3 elephants, 2 green monkies, a unicorn and some guy I sweAr looked just like Moses. AdN my FliNGars weint wonkie.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
We've got this in our livers. It is what absorbs the alcohol in our bodies into waste that can be flushed. It also plays (in some studies) a role in alcoholism. What it does in this product, I don't know but it should remove moisture in as it's a conversion precursor.

Alcohol dehydrogenases are a class of zinc enzymes which catalyse the oxidation of primary and secondary alcohols to the corresponding aldehyde or ketone by the transfer of a hydride anion to NAD+ with release of a proton.
 

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Yea I know we have it in our livers. What I am saying is that they made their "non-toxic" claim by adding something to the antifreeze to keep your liver from trying to process it like it normally would(it's the byproduct of the breakdown that is dangerous, not the antifreeze itself). I'm betting that stuff added is ethanol, because why develop something else when pure ethanol is dirt cheap? According to Wikipedia alcohol dehydrogenase has like a 100times more affinity to ethanol than ethylene glycol, so it would make sense to use it as a cheap way to make antifreeze "safe". Like if you were to gulp down antifreeze then go to the hospital all the doctor would do is give you some vodka and monitor you.
 

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I'm thinking is the question here is:

A) Are you trying to be green (seems not)
B) Are you trying to be smart (by using a product with claims of high boiling points)
C) Are you trying to save money by NEVER having to replace your engine cooling "stuff" (never going to happen)
D) Are you just being "Max" and stirring the pot and offering your OLD opinion :)

Bob. ;)
 
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