Eagle Talon...
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They are mechanicly the same as a Mitsubishi Eclipse. The
Na's are ok, but the ones you really have to watch out for
are the turbo's. And some of them also have AWD, but it depends
on the year. I like to think of them as a mini version of the 3/S's.
I think the weight to hp ratio is about the same.
Na's are ok, but the ones you really have to watch out for
are the turbo's. And some of them also have AWD, but it depends
on the year. I like to think of them as a mini version of the 3/S's.
I think the weight to hp ratio is about the same.
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They can be quick, but it's that mentality that keeps them behind.933000 said:
I used to know a bunch of Talon/Eclipse/Laser owners. All of them convinced the 3S was too heavy and too slow. They dumped some serious cash into each of them, and none ever held with me very long.
Now that the price is coming down on the AWD Turbo models, there's a lot more stupid kids out there getting their hands on them, thinking they're so quick. I wouldn't be too concerned.
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I had a 1990 Eagle Talon ES (kinda like a R/T luxury). It was ok, but not fast. Handled better than it raced. The TSi's are quick. Like he said, watch out. They will not touch a turbo 3S but will give a ES a run for its money and blow away a Base. All depends on what you drive.
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What are you guys smoking???
90-94 5spd AWD E/T/L cars $4-5K with a $2500 in mods will run mid 12s all day long. That's enough to beat or keep up with any bpu TT 3S cars anyday in the 1/4 mile. It will eat the TT stockers for sure.
95-99 turbo models are easily modded too and will run the same time but risk of getting crank walk is high. Two of my friends have them right now.
Yes i have own a few DSM cars.
John M can back me up on this one
Sam,
90-94 5spd AWD E/T/L cars $4-5K with a $2500 in mods will run mid 12s all day long. That's enough to beat or keep up with any bpu TT 3S cars anyday in the 1/4 mile. It will eat the TT stockers for sure.
95-99 turbo models are easily modded too and will run the same time but risk of getting crank walk is high. Two of my friends have them right now.
Yes i have own a few DSM cars.
John M can back me up on this one
Sam,
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659 Posts
The only thing smoking are the tires on a Stang...
Here's my $5 worth of comments...
When Mitsu made the DSM's, they made a four banger that could hang with the Mustang's and Z28's in the early 90's. When Mitsu made the 3S's they made a car that would hang with the Vette's and the Porsche's. The bottom line is, the DSM's are fast and a stock DSM AWD will be just behind a Stock VR4 in the quarter mile. Both can be upgraded to go faster but only one was made for true performance.
The 3S's, as many of us tend to forget, is a true performance sports/touring car. Where a DSM will slide off the road at 70MPH on a tight S-Curve entrance ramp, the 3S will hug the corners at 80+MPH with ease. Where a Stang will slip on the road and do 360's on ice, the 3S will take off in confidence.
Where a DSM tops off and runs out of gears and RPMs at 140MPH, the VR4 rides away at 170+MPH.
Sure, the 3S is heavy, but ever wonder why the $300K 6.0 V12 Diablo GT weigh's more than an 8.0 Viper? It's a performance touring/sportscar that can make the driver one with the road. The Diablo GT weighs about the same as a VR4.
When Mitsu made the GTO in Japan, they wanted it to be "Everything All Four" and of course wanted speed. The 280 RWHP limit in Japan was one of few things stopping them from doing what the designers intended the car to do. It had the potential to be faster and they could have easily done this. Bet you didn't know the the three Flavors of GTO in Japan were the GTO Twin Turbo, the GTO Twin Turbo MR and the GTO SR, where the SR was 225HP and AWD! There were no front wheel drive N/A's with SOHC; All models were AWD; and two were Twin Turbo. See the link below and go to Specifications to see for yourself. Mitsu could have put in 15G turbos but that damn limit probably held them back.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs8/productss/gto99/index.html
So the next time a DSM guy gives you flack about the inferior Talon or Eclipse being faster from an upgrade, remember the heritage of our cars and the dream that Mitsu had when they designed the Coca-Cola looking Performance Touring/Sportscar that was truely "Everything All Four".
I think I'm going to cry.
Here's my $5 worth of comments...
When Mitsu made the DSM's, they made a four banger that could hang with the Mustang's and Z28's in the early 90's. When Mitsu made the 3S's they made a car that would hang with the Vette's and the Porsche's. The bottom line is, the DSM's are fast and a stock DSM AWD will be just behind a Stock VR4 in the quarter mile. Both can be upgraded to go faster but only one was made for true performance.
The 3S's, as many of us tend to forget, is a true performance sports/touring car. Where a DSM will slide off the road at 70MPH on a tight S-Curve entrance ramp, the 3S will hug the corners at 80+MPH with ease. Where a Stang will slip on the road and do 360's on ice, the 3S will take off in confidence.
Where a DSM tops off and runs out of gears and RPMs at 140MPH, the VR4 rides away at 170+MPH.
Sure, the 3S is heavy, but ever wonder why the $300K 6.0 V12 Diablo GT weigh's more than an 8.0 Viper? It's a performance touring/sportscar that can make the driver one with the road. The Diablo GT weighs about the same as a VR4.
When Mitsu made the GTO in Japan, they wanted it to be "Everything All Four" and of course wanted speed. The 280 RWHP limit in Japan was one of few things stopping them from doing what the designers intended the car to do. It had the potential to be faster and they could have easily done this. Bet you didn't know the the three Flavors of GTO in Japan were the GTO Twin Turbo, the GTO Twin Turbo MR and the GTO SR, where the SR was 225HP and AWD! There were no front wheel drive N/A's with SOHC; All models were AWD; and two were Twin Turbo. See the link below and go to Specifications to see for yourself. Mitsu could have put in 15G turbos but that damn limit probably held them back.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs8/productss/gto99/index.html
So the next time a DSM guy gives you flack about the inferior Talon or Eclipse being faster from an upgrade, remember the heritage of our cars and the dream that Mitsu had when they designed the Coca-Cola looking Performance Touring/Sportscar that was truely "Everything All Four".
I think I'm going to cry.
Re: What are you guys smoking???
(if you do the labor yourself, why wouldnt you?)
Its a little more for the 2g ones, considering youll need a turbo upgrade of you ever want to even touch 11's
More like $1200 in modsBudhaThrilla said:90-94 5spd AWD E/T/L cars $4-5K with a $2500 in mods will run mid 12s all day long. That's enough to beat or keep up with any bpu TT 3S cars anyday in the 1/4 mile. It will eat the TT stockers for sure.
95-99 turbo models are easily modded too and will run the same time but risk of getting crank walk is high. Two of my friends have them right now.
Yes i have own a few DSM cars.
John M can back me up on this one
Sam,
(if you do the labor yourself, why wouldnt you?)Its a little more for the 2g ones, considering youll need a turbo upgrade of you ever want to even touch 11's
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Whoa, hang on. Really, the only reason people think DSM's are faster is because they can be modded a lot cheeper/easier than a 3/S. That, and DSM have a much larger aftermarket than 3/S's also. Think of DSM's as "Cheep speed". They don't have the flash that 3/S's do, but they are fast.
WHOA......so your saying that 1200 dollars in parts can put a talon in the mid 12's? your smoking crack! I know a guy here who has a 1g talon with a shit load of mods. big 16g, fmic, just about everything you can think of including cams and camgears. He runs a cosistant 13.1. He bought alot of his mods from a 2g eclipse awd, and he ran a 12.7 with about the same things. elevation makes some differience, but 1200 will not put a talon in mid 12's. I beat him to 115 by 2 cars when I only had intake and gutted cat. Now I SMOKE him. and I'm bpu, and he is fully modded. I have to disagree with everyone. There is a 9 second talon out there, (the only one by the way) that has a huge turbo and needs nitrous just to spool the turbo. and it does it with a 200 shot sprayed 2 times in a quater. The eclipse and talon are fast cars, not as fast as a 3s. (according to my experiences) Around here, thats all everyone has. yet no one is touching me.
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What is he? A FWD or just a really bad driver?starfish said:
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Well, see a GSX is AWD. If his car is only FWD, then of coarse the GSX is faster...
Please research things you say before you try to explain things you dont know shit about. $1200 bucks can put a FWD or an AWD DSM into the mid 12's, dont believe me? Call up buschur racing, even check their website under "Power Stages". If your friend with the 1g cant get into the 12's, he needs to learn how to tune his car, or learn to drive. obviously theres something holding him back, because he has all the parts for speed. There was a 9 seconds talon, then he went into the 8's. He doesnt need nitrous to spool the turbo, he just uses it to help spool sooner. It is owned by Sean Glazer of Extreme Motorsports,(they havnt updated thier site with the 8 second run yet) There is also a tube chassis RWD 4g63 powered talon by Buschur Racing, im not sure of the 1/4 times, but they can easily be found. I still dont understand why you say the T/E/L arent as fast as the 3S, they are faster, and have more potential. As a previous owner of a 93 GSX and now a 91 VR4, for racing, ill take the GSX, for a 200 mile drive, ill take my VR4.starfish said:WHOA......so your saying that 1200 dollars in parts can put a talon in the mid 12's? your smoking crack! I know a guy here who has a 1g talon with a shit load of mods. big 16g, fmic, just about everything you can think of including cams and camgears. He runs a cosistant 13.1. He bought alot of his mods from a 2g eclipse awd, and he ran a 12.7 with about the same things. elevation makes some differience, but 1200 will not put a talon in mid 12's. I beat him to 115 by 2 cars when I only had intake and gutted cat. Now I SMOKE him. and I'm bpu, and he is fully modded. I have to disagree with everyone. There is a 9 second talon out there, (the only one by the way) that has a huge turbo and needs nitrous just to spool the turbo. and it does it with a 200 shot sprayed 2 times in a quater. The eclipse and talon are fast cars, not as fast as a 3s. (according to my experiences) Around here, thats all everyone has. yet no one is touching me.
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im sorry starfish but there is a shit load of fast dsms out there.....theres a plethora of them running in the 11's and a few of them running in the 10's.......sean glazer dave buschur and john sheperd are a few of the guys who have had their awd dsm's in the 10's.....glazer broke into the 8's not that long ago and buschur has been in the 8's for a bit now.
sad to say but due to the large aftermarket support for the dsm's and other reasons i cant think of right now dsm's are consistently faster than our beloved 3s's
sad to say but due to the large aftermarket support for the dsm's and other reasons i cant think of right now dsm's are consistently faster than our beloved 3s's
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I really don't think anyone is arguing that the DSM's can be faster than the 3S. That has been proven, and a 3S will always need more expensive mods to keep up with the easily upgradable DSM.
But one thing is for sure and I will stand by this statement, "A 3S (TT and VR4) outperforms a DSM stock for stock period!" No arguing there because that has been proven too.
Yes, less than $2000 can get a DSM in the 12's but so can $4000 in a 3S (15G's and at least 550cc injectors and an exhaust). It just costs more for a 3S to achieve the same 1/4 mile times because you need two of everything and parts are rarer, and the weight will always hinder that time. However, go beyond the 1/4 mile.... go to warp 140MPH+, fly through the S-curves, cut in and out of lanes at high speeds, put them on a road coarse track and see who comes out the winner in performance and stability...the 3S.
I still have my DSM in the backyard being parted out, which reminds me, maintain and run the engines to 200K miles and see who's still running without burning oil. This post originally asked what do we think of DSMs. I think they are great low-budget draggers, but inferior sportscars.
Peace
But one thing is for sure and I will stand by this statement, "A 3S (TT and VR4) outperforms a DSM stock for stock period!" No arguing there because that has been proven too.
Yes, less than $2000 can get a DSM in the 12's but so can $4000 in a 3S (15G's and at least 550cc injectors and an exhaust). It just costs more for a 3S to achieve the same 1/4 mile times because you need two of everything and parts are rarer, and the weight will always hinder that time. However, go beyond the 1/4 mile.... go to warp 140MPH+, fly through the S-curves, cut in and out of lanes at high speeds, put them on a road coarse track and see who comes out the winner in performance and stability...the 3S.
I still have my DSM in the backyard being parted out, which reminds me, maintain and run the engines to 200K miles and see who's still running without burning oil. This post originally asked what do we think of DSMs. I think they are great low-budget draggers, but inferior sportscars.
Peace
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You are completely correct there!klamathpro said:
{missing crusing at 120 in the Stealth and not even realizing it...}
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