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www.cts-racing.com
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anyone else got something on this? i was actually hoping to have a little bit of a discussion. of course, anyone can go ahead and post any dyno chart they want to this thread, for archive-esk sake or whatever. i would like to incorporate mph-derived dynos somehow, but some kind of understanding/agreement/consensus should happen first.
Another thing to consider is that not all dynos have the same rpm pickup methods and some can be quite off if not calibrated correctly. Are you looking at converting the current rpm charts to mph? I guess I am not understanding the question.
 

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rock on, yeah rock on
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Discussion Starter #62
I am going to go ahead and sticky this. Maybe that will help.


Coop
very cool, thanks :)

Another thing to consider is that not all dynos have the same rpm pickup methods and some can be quite off if not calibrated correctly. Are you looking at converting the current rpm charts to mph? I guess I am not understanding the question.
that is true, that different measuring equipement may read slightly different, even the same manufacturer and such, as long as they're in tolerances and all. but that is just something that is fully out of our control here. i think that's just one of those things that must be taken on faith that it's done correctly, for the terms of this project anyway.

no, not looking to convert from rpm to mph, the opposite actually. i'm actually trying to encourage talk about adding the dyno charts that are plotted on mph instead of rpm on the x-axis. there are some very high hp cars that have been dyno'd, but the graph used mph instead of rpm on the x-axis, for whatever reason. the current "rule" on this project, as originated by mellon, is those charts as a whole cannot be put on the same graph as the rpm charts, because there are possibly too many variables to accurately compute it. now, if 3si as a whole wishes to change that rule, possibly adding stipulations to the rule, or something like that, i'm not opposed to converting them to rpm and putting them on there. or maybe, i just had an idea and thinking outloud, just make a seperate chart for them. one with mph on the x-axis instead, and just put those charts all together. just a thought.
 

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Ninja Performance
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Since overall tire size will change MPH in gear at rpm I don't think it can be taken for granted 100% that you can convert a MPH graph to RPM.

That said, how far off would it be?

-Chris
 

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SOHC you in the FACE
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Since overall tire size will change MPH in gear at rpm I don't think it can be taken for granted 100% that you can convert a MPH graph to RPM.

That said, how far off would it be?

-Chris
Radials have almost no growth. 26" slicks can grow 1-2 inches or possibly more. The narrower rim you have for your slick width, the more growth!

FWD cars can usually measure slick growth during Burnouts if they do a 4th gear burnout. Would be pretty hard to measure at the top end...or a real fancy camera.
 

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Ninja Performance
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Radials have almost no growth. 26" slicks can grow 1-2 inches or possibly more. The narrower rim you have for your slick width, the more growth!

FWD cars can usually measure slick growth during Burnouts if they do a 4th gear burnout. Would be pretty hard to measure at the top end...or a real fancy camera.
Wasn't talking about growth, was talking about using different size tires and how they change the MPH per RPM.

Not to mention new tires versus almost bald having overall size differences.
And hell, even same size tires from different manufacturers have overall size differences.

-Chris
 

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rock on, yeah rock on
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Discussion Starter #66
right, this is once concern i have as well. the only way to accurately get it, is to have the person actually measure their tire with a tape measure or something. and then that raises the question, use distance to the side or up, or to the bottom of the tire, since it obviously squishes the tire at the bottom due to weight. and does it elongate at all during a pull? i kinda touched on this a couple posts ago using my own tires as a reference, and from my math, depending on where you measured from, it could be off by 200-300 rpm.
 

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Is there any way I could get a graph of the lower ranges? Going down to 2000 RPM and say 100 HP? I know not all people start runs that low, but some do. I'm trying to work on the low end with my car and would like to get an idea of where others are at. I guess I would only need it for the TD04 cars, I'm not worried about the big turbo cars.

Or would it be possible to get the Excel file?
 

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Ninja Performance
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We always start our pulls at 35mph.

-Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #69
Is there any way I could get a graph of the lower ranges? Going down to 2000 RPM and say 100 HP? I know not all people start runs that low, but some do. I'm trying to work on the low end with my car and would like to get an idea of where others are at. I guess I would only need it for the TD04 cars, I'm not worried about the big turbo cars.

Or would it be possible to get the Excel file?
the excel file i have starts at 3000 rpm, no less. and 200 hp was chosen as a decent number to start the hp graphs at. so the only way to get that info would be to go back and find the original dyno charts, and see where they started at. and incidentally, if you do, please pm/email/post to me the charts, as it's something i'd like to be able to add to one of the posts right after the first one, a link to the original graphs that are on these charts.
 

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I don't think I'm going to go through the trouble of putting them in Excel. I tired with 1 or 2, but it's a TON of work, some graphs are quite poor. MAD props for you and Mellon for dealing with it.

I went through and found a number of graphs (some from this thread) for different turbo's. I'll just post up the numbers for reference. As you can see from the charts on page one, 5 of the 12 TD04 cars are ~200 WHP at 3000 RPM. Surprisingly enough, the 19T's aren't that far off! A healthy motor and a good setup can have it's effects I guess. Most graphs I've found start just under 2500 RPM, so that's as low as I'm going.

wsrtt's 9B car [email protected] [email protected]
DR500 car [email protected] 195 @3000
13G car [email protected] [email protected] (not a great graph, small and hard to read)
13T car [email protected] [email protected]
DOCH NA [email protected] [email protected] (made 190HP, 186TQ, fairly typical for an NA)
Stock LS2 ~147 @ 2500, ~185 @ 3000
Trevor's 14B setup ~110 @ 2500, ~175 @3000 (started at 1900, that's going to help spool up)
oohnoo's 19T's [email protected] (estimated, graph starts at ~2550) [email protected] (DR street cams)
Niterydr's 50 trims [email protected], [email protected] ("272" cams! not down that bad compared to an NA!) :eek:
EVO8 with an FP green ~145 @ 3000 (start of graph)

Looking at all the similar turbo cars, it seems that most gains are going to be made by applying NA tuning theory. The difference in power between the 9B/13G/DR500/13T is negligible.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
just to show you what i'm talking about, here's a screenshot of the excel file. data below 3000 rpm isn't even put into the file. if it's below 200 hp at 3000 (or more) rpm, it's inputted, but just to help give the graph an accurate shape, that point isn't going to appear on the chart, obviously.

also, if you could give me the links to those charts, that'd be cool. i'll add them to the first page, so others can reference them.

 

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Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
cool, thanks. added. also, updated the first three charts. I added the 3.5L 50 trim chart from 3sx for a customer's car "norman". I added DR's non-dbb chart (which incidentally beat nelson's dr-1000 chart, so he's off the chart), for a customer's car, but no name for that customer so if anyone knows his username, i'll add it. also, added my own phantom dyno chart. it's been about a year since it was dyno'd, but i didn't add it because i wasn't completely happy with it (particularly the slow spool up), so i was going to wait till i dyno'd again, but i'm being pretty slow in that area so i went ahead and added it, which beat out DuTTch's phantom dyno. i know there were at least two other people with higher dyno's on phantoms than me (fast93vr4 and noah) but neither posted dyno charts. i also know shiver hit, i think, ~450 whp by 4500 rpm but had some issues and couldn't get past that rpm, but i never saw a dyno chart.

also, a new rule is being added. If a chart was posted in a thread somewhere, i would ask if they'd allow me to add it to the chart. most of the time i never got a response, which i took as a silent no. as such, this thread never got updated much. that's changing. in order to try and keep this more up to date, i'll add any chart that i find on the forums here, without needing to ask. the basis for this is that if you're posting it on a public forum, then it's not like you're trying to "keep the cat in the bag" so to speak, so putting it in one other thread isn't going to hurt anything. by posting it in a public forum you're opening it up for discussion/comparison anyway. first page updated with this new rule.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
i would like to. but there is currently only one 3.5L motor on the charts. some, such as DR, aren't on there because their graph is in mph instead of rpm. (see last couple pages for why they aren't on here). if you know of some other 3.5L dyno charts then let me know, or better yet, post them here, and i'll see what can be done. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #77
well, depending on how many 3.5L charts there are, and how many are in mph or in rpm, some stuff might still be done. if you have a collection of them, or the links, post them up and i'll see what i can do. if for nothing else they'd at least all be in one place. maybe put them in the 2nd or 3rd post on the front page at least.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
charts have been updated. 97VR4's 19T dyno of 605 awhp beat out oohnoo's 19T spot, so oohnoo's was removed. WidowMaker's was added because it was a 3.5L motor, making only the 2nd one on these charts. the second post was also updated with a link to the thread with all the info the dyno's were posted in.
 

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Nooooooooooooooo.................................................not on my B-Day.:( lol
Beside it's not like the listings are only of each individual turbo's, there are duplicates. It's just a collection of the top achievements.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
sorry oohnoo, didn't realize it was your bday. bad day for me to update it, lol. the reason there are duplicate turbos for some types, is that there is a significant change other than the turbos. something like race gas vs. pump gas. or stock 3L vs. a stroker. or fwd vs. awd. or perhaps even modified heads/cams vs. stock heads/cams (but that may be the closest i'd allow two setups to be and still put them both on, not sure if there are any like that on there now). since both of you two were on race gas, 3L, even stock heads/cams, i couldn't really see keeping yours on there. if you see something on there that doesn't seem like it should belong, please let me know, and i'll take a look at it.
 
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