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Turbo-Less
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Yep, it's finally here. I've arranged a Group Buy from South Bend Clutch.

NEW !!! IF YOU NEED YOUR CLUTCH NOW then EMAIL ME and I can get it worked out for you. Please only do this if you REALLY need it NOW! [email protected]

NEW !!! N/A CLUTCHES NOW AVAILABLE!! SEE BELOW!! Note, the N/A and Turbo Group Buys are SEPARATE!

They have THREE types of clutches available... from mild to wild. All are better than stock clutch (of course), and all are at a SUPER PRICE!

All prices are with a minimum of 10 clutches purchased, we can combine types to add up to 10!


TZ: Stronger than stock (415 HP to the WHEELS!), and will last much longer than stock. $375 for turbo (normally $425). N/A: $215 (normally $260!).



DXD: This is a 6-puck clutch! MUCH stronger than stock (475HP to the WHEELS!) and will last longer than stock (especially under hard use, will last MUCH longer than stock). This uses a stock pressure plate that has been modified to have 30% more clamping force HOWEVER the PEDAL PRESSURE is about the same as stock! Very very streetable!TURBO Price $400 with 10-14 purchased, $375 15+. (Normally $450). N/A: $265 (normally $315!).




DXD-B: Another 6-puck clutch, more agressive, holds 550hp to the WHEELS!. Less streetable than the DXD but still a lot smoother than other racing clutches. Price $400 with 10-14 purchased, $375 15+. (normally $450)

Note we can combine the DXD and DXD-B quantities to get the quantity discount... so for example we could do 10 DXDs and 5 DXD-B's and get them all for $375 each.

NOTE: PRICE INCLUDES THE HIGH PERFORMANCE RELEASE (throwout) BEARING AND THE ALIGNMENT TOOL! Keep this in mind when looking at other clutches, because most other aftermarket clutches DO NOT include the release bearing, and the Mitsu one is $40-50!!!


I, myself, am getting the DXD. It's plenty agressive for me, and very streetable... but I know there's a bunch of guys hoping for a carbon/carbon 6-puck type clutch so the DXD-B would probably be their choice.

The group buy will last until DECEMBER 15 (that's 3 weeks). At that point, each person will have to contact South Bend Clutch with a credit card (or mail them a check). Clutches will be shipped upon payment, at the end of the group buy!

ABOUT SOUTH BEND CLUTCH
This clutch has had a lot of good discussion lately. HERE'S A THREAD ABOUT THEM (one note, in one post it's mentioned that SBC is a "new" company, that's not true... they've been around for a LONG time. There's a few members that already have one, and everything I've seen says they LOVE it. SBC's owner's son has a TT Stealth with a DXD in it, and it's running great. I'm entirely confident that this is a great clutch, otherwise I wouldn't be setting up this group buy!

A search at SupraForums will also net a bunch of good comments about the DXD. They are doing well with them, I know there's a couple 9 and 10-second Supras running them (one local guy, running 9's is SPONSORED by South Bend Clutch). I went to an import race over the summer and a LOT of the cars had SBC's in them... including a Civic running 11's and many others.

SBC was nice enough to put up a webpage with the pics and more information... CLICK HERE TO GO THERE!

TO SIGN UP FOR THE GROUP BUY, YOU NEED TO EMAIL ME! I'll keep a running list here on this thread (usernames only).

THE INFO I NEED FROM YOU:
1. Full Name
2. Phone
3. ZIP Code
4. Username
5. Type of clutch you'll want

EMail that all to [email protected]

Please do NOT sign up if you aren't going to follow thru!

LET'S GET THIS PUPPY MOVING!!
 

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Badassical Baddage
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6,535 Posts
What are the normal prices on the clutches?

I don't think I have the funds right now since it's the Xmas season :(
 

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Turbo-Less
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8,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm not sure on the TZ, I think $425 normally.
DXD is normally $450
DXD-B is normally $450 or maybe $475.

So it's a good deal!
 

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Turbo-Less
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8,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Actually we already talked about that... they mentioned $400 for the Fidanza, I'm not sure how that compares to other people or if it's a good deal.

If there's enough interest in the flywheels then maybe we can try to get the price down..

HOWEVER I'm a little hesitant to directly compete with the 3Si tuners on things like Fidanza... since they can't sell the SBC clutches, I am comfortable doing these, but I really don't want to directly compete with them on Fidanza stuff.
 

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Are we there yet?
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60 Posts
JeremyG said:
HOWEVER I'm a little hesitant to directly compete with the 3Si tuners on things like Fidanza... since they can't sell the SBC clutches, I am comfortable doing these, but I really don't want to directly compete with them on Fidanza stuff.
You are correct...I checked and the 3Si tuners run around $420 to $430 for the Fidanza... Not enough of a price difference. We should support our own tuners.

Thanks
 

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Member #140 Aug, 1998
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3,777 Posts
I am still in a quandry about clutches myself. I can't logically see how a 6 puck can have more holding power than a full clutch because of less surface to surface tension. I can see why they can't just put better material on a full face clutch. The RPS Stage 3's haven't even been holding up very well lately with pucks breaking off and locking up the clutch. The chatter from them and unusual engagement of them kind of jerking you around and not being able to slip them at high rpms. I just wonder if these will be any better. We can always hope, but I do like the price. What kind of warranty are they giving with these things when using them in the 500 hp bracket and why are you choosing the DXD over the DXD-B considering they are the same price? You don't look like you have any problem with leg muscles,, hehe


NOTICE::::::::::: Before you read further notice the date on this thread,, it is way over and the group buy ended a long time ago!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Turbo-Less
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8,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The puck-thing-question also baffles me. I'll be calling them on Wednesday and will pose the same question. Will post the answer here!

However as for chatter and jerking, Eddie (at SBC) promises that the regular DXD will NOT chatter or be "grabby" and is VERY VERY streetable. His words to me were "just as streetable as the stock clutch".

The engagement movement is a little less (ie: from the point of first touching, to full engagement is shorter than stock), but as for chatter, etc. it's not a problem with the DXD.

The reason I chose the DXD instead of the DXD-B is that the -B is more agressive and less streetable (ie. it does chatter sometimes, and is a bit "grabby"... but according to Eddie, MUCH less than other company's racing clutches). I'm not worried about pedal pressure for myself (or chatter, it doesn't bother me!), but Tiffany has laid down the law, saying, "get an aftermarket clutch but it better feel just like the stock one!" :) The DXD-B is a RACING clutch so it will have some of the issues associated with it. But again, Eddie says it's much less of a problem than the competition.

I'm not sure about the warranty, I'll also ask him that. Does RPS/ACT have ANY warranty at all?

Oh, another thing I just thought of, the break in period for these clutches is like 50-100 miles of city-type driving. He said his son's broke in in 30 miles (he said it's obvious when it's broken in, the pedal feel is much different than from when new).
 

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Member #140 Aug, 1998
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3,777 Posts
Hahaha I had to laugh at their Flash at the beginning. I mean it's nice and all but It so reminded me of the Honduh rice video someone made up with the car going sideways down the track because it was pasted in. LOL
Bwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

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Member #140 Aug, 1998
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3,777 Posts
Ok, warranty doesn't really say much about the high perf clutches. To me if they are designed for racing and holding X amount of HP, then the warranty should cover it if it doesn't live up to what it is designed for. The best way to get a good launch without breaking driveline components is to slip or ride the clutch on launch working your way to full engagement keeping the RPM's up high for power and then wanting the clutch to stop slipping rather than just dropping it. That is why the Carbon Carbon is good because it can stand the heat without breaking down and leaving deposits on the flywheel. When a clutch can stand repeated use in this manner without burning, it will be a good clutch. The way that warranty reads it doesn't cover burning the clutch, but then again maybe there is a different one for the high per clutches. What material do they use on the DXD-B? You refered to people wanting Carbon wanting these. Is the material Carbon impregnated to pervent burning breakdown?
 

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Member #140 Aug, 1998
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3,777 Posts
To me I like the looks of this clutch the best for more surface contact and cooling. Now if they could put the right material on the surface mated with the right flywheel that could withstand the heat of a slipped clutch launch, that would be great. Virtually eliminating burnt clutches which is our most major problem. Thermal breakdown,,

 

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The Blank Man
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1,161 Posts
i want to follow this thread. I am also intrested in the buy, I just want to get set up in cali first so no unexpected expenditures come up.
 

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3,362 Posts
Clutch physics 101

The holding power of a puck design is all in the physics, the first thing you need to do is stop equating pounds with PSI, you input pounds of force into the clutch actuation, but its the PSI that hold the clutch.

Kind of like skiing on a longer ski, all things being equal, the more surface area you have over which to distribute a load, the less pounds per square inch the actual pressure on the bearing surface. This is why you go so much faster on 210's than you do on 185's, less PSI loading equals less friction.

With a 6 puck design, you are approximately halving the area bearing the load, so you are doubling the psi holding the puck in place. With a 4 puck design, you are approximately a third the area, so voila, you have 3 times the psi.

Friction force is result of the coeficient of friction for the materials used times the force applied divided by area over which the force is distributed. Thus friction force is directly proportional to the force applied, yet INVERSLY proportional to the area over which you apply them, ie. they are directly proportional to PSI

It is all this additional PSI that hold the clutch.

As to why clutches spin, and then bite when you let off, the static coefficient of friction for any given material is ALWAYS greater than the dynamic coefficient of friction. When the material stops moving, or slows so that the dynamic friction force exceeds the rotational force, the system locks up. At this point, the dynamic friction force is irrelivent, you have to exceed the Static Friction force to break the system loose. Once you exceed the static friction force with rotational force, you again have to reduce rotation force BELOW the dynamic frictional force to again have the system lock up.

Make any sense?
 

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The Blank Man
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1,161 Posts
so according to what you are saying, a 4 puck should hold more than a 6 puck, b/c there is less area in contact with whatever it touches
 

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You got it, that is of course as long as you:

A. Have the same material in both clutches (the same coefficient of friction)

B. Have the same pressure plate, you can increase the holding as well by increasing the pounds of force from the pressure plate.

C. Don't have 4 HUGE pucks (think of it as what percent of the complete surface is bearing the load).

D. You don't exceed the structural strength of the material when you drop the area to only 4 pucks.

As you can see, clutch design is a balencing act between material strength, coefficients of friction (dynamic and static), and pressures.
 

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Turbo-Less
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8,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
First of all, I got in contact with SBC and asked the above questions... plus I also read iceman's post to him. He said Iceman is RIGHT ON with his comments in explaining why a 6-puck is better than solid face. Thanks iceman!

MORE DETAILED INFO
I have to admit I know very little, but this is all directly from SBC. The info is factual, however I don't know exactly what it means. :)

All 3 clutches have: 2440lbs Pressure Plate. However, this is actually BETTER than the 2600lb ACT clutch (which is ORGANIC!), because of materials used and the 6-puck design. And remember, the design of the pressure plate results in lighter clutch pressure (by your leg). The engagement area is slightly smaller, though.

To explain, TZ is made with Kevlar and is 2.6 times the friction co-efficient of organic (ACT).

The DXD uses Kevlar and a Ceramic composite, and is a bit more than 5 times the friction co-efficient of organic.

DXD-B is all Ceramic and has 7.5 the friction co-efficient of organic.


REBUILDABILITY!
There are a lot of variables here, but in GENERAL, this clutch is rebuildable. What that means is if you "blow it out" totally, then it's harder (or possibly impossible) to rebuild. But, for example, under normal use, it's rebuildable. He can't quote exact rebuild prices but he says DEPENDING ON THE CONDITION OF THE CLUTCH that the rebuild would be around $250-350. So yeah, you can rebuild them (in most cases!).

WARRANTY
Yes, it's 12/12,000 and he basically says that "we'll work with you". I am not going to make any promises for him but he did tell me that many times, even if it's the clutch owner's fault, they'll honor the warranty. Or even if not full warranty, then give a good discount on the replacement. He was really up-front with me, we had a nice discussion about it. He says if the owner is honest (even if it was his fault!) then they are very willing to work with you.

WHY THE RPS BLOWS OUT
To preface, one thing I HATE is for someone to disparage a competitor in order to sell his product. SBC does NOT do that, however he did give me some facts on competitor clutches.

Several members have had problems with RPS clutches blowing out in a short period. SBC says the reason this is, is that EVERY OTHER PUCK is made of a different material, and that material is actually PAPER BASED. I don't know the exact material but I see no reason for him to lie about it. He says that every RPS clutch he's seen "blown out" is only blown out on EVERY OTHER puck, and it's the "paper" pucks that have the problems. Take this info any way you wish, but the guy knows clutches!

MORE ABOUT SOUTH BEND CLUTCH
The company has been around almost 40 years. Eddie has been there for 11 years, and there's 1 other guy with 15 years and 3 other guys with 25 years experience. These are the guys that designed these clutches. They are recently (2-3 years) experiencing a huge growth in the "import" and sports car market (previously they focused on large vehicles... semi-trucks, tow trucks, delivery trucks, etc.). They are quickly becoming well known in this market!



I'm going to tell you guys, the more I talk to him, the more I'm convinced that the South Bend Clutch is a quality clutch with a GOOD COMPANY behind it.

I'm very excited to get my clutch and put it to some hard use.

Email me (see original post) if you want in on this GB!!
 

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STOCK ??? HELL NO...!!!
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3,489 Posts
Hey, common people... I need one ASAP...:rolleyes:

Sign me in if they are going to be available by next week.... I know GB takes a little time sometimes, but my car is a daily driver and I don't have a clutch anymore....
So guys ... let make this quick....pleeeeeaaassssseeee:rolleyes:

El Boricua
 

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Registered
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JeremyG said:
He said Iceman is RIGHT ON with his comments in explaining why a 6-puck is better than solid face.
I feel so validated, maybe I should email this to my mom to prove I didn't sleep away those 4 years at UMR :)
 

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Turbo-Less
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8,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hey Guys, I've had a couple emails (Boruca makes it 3) of people who need the clutch NOW. And come to think about it, usually a clutch buy is something you do when you NEED IT NOW, not "just in case" :)

So I'm going to ask Eddie if he can work something out... my suggestion to him is that he could charge you $400 now (and ship the clutch immediately) and as long as we get the 10 for the Group Buy, then you'd be ALL SET. But if the GB doesn't get 10 people, then he'd charge you the extra $50 to make it regular price. You'd have to agree on that, of course.

I'll check with him, and let you guys know, that way he won't be getting a ton of calls asking the same question!
 
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