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1991 VR4
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Datalogging using Torque Pro App and BlackStealth’s OBD1 converter – Discussion, Q&A

This first post will be edited and updated as I gather more information, refine instructions, get questions answered, etc.

Lots of updates/additions on 5/20/18 - THIS POST BECAME TOO LONG (10000 char limit). Please see this link for the rest of the post and updates: Datalogging using Torque Pro App and BlackStealth’s OBD1...


The purpose of this thread is to discuss my experience setting up and using BlackStealth’s OBD1/MUT into Canbus OBD2 converter for use with Torque Pro App to display vehicle information from the ECU in real time and more importantly, datalog a variety of important sensors using the app. The datalogs can be exported (emailed, uploaded) as a .csv file so that you can view them in Excel or whatever other program.

Step 1: Buy the converter from BlackStealth, and get a OBD2 transmitter device so that you can transmit the data from the converter to your phone. You essentially have 3 options - bluetooth, USB, or wifi (mostly only for iOS users since they cannot use bluetooth). Apparently the cheap ebay $5 ELM Bluetooth devices work, but I opted for a slightly more expensive one that had high reviews on amazon (see below).
BlackStealth’s Converter (and any cables you need): Convert OBD1/MUT into Canbus OBD2 for Torque App
(If you are ever going to be adding sensors or making configuration changes to BlackStealth's Converter, you will need a serial cable. This is the one recommended ($14). I purchased it and was able to successfully connect to and reconfigure the converter for my boost pressure sensor: AYA 5Ft. USB 2.0 to Serial (9-pin) DB-9 RS-232 Adapter Cable FTDI Win/Mac/Linux 852660732384 | eBay)
OBD2 Bluetooth (BT): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Update: I was getting an average PID speed of only ~14 PIDs/sec with the OBD2 bluetooth transmitter. It seems that most bluetooth transmitters will be this slow unless you get a expensive one ($50+), and even then, it may not be that fast. This is important because this speed will determine the "refresh rate" for your realtime information display AND how often values are written into your log when logging. Lets say you are logging 7 PIDs (basically bare minimum for useful logging), this means values will only be refreshed about every 0.5 seconds in your log. Quite slow if you are trying to get near-realtime information when doing a WOT 2nd gear pull. 14 PIDs would only refresh about every second. Way too low.

To try and get more speed I bought a OBD2 USB adapter. Blackstealth reported speeds up to 200 PIDs/sec after "hacking" his OBD2 device as noted here (this is missing a few steps, see below in this post): New invention, convert OBD1/MUT into Canbus OBD2 for...
I opted for this OBD2 USB device for $12 from China (be sure to choose FTDI for the "color" option): https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD-2-ELM327-Scanner-Autoscanner-V-1-5-Car-Diagnostic-Tool-Bluetooth-With-Chips/323180231234?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=512264744084&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I also had to get a "on the go (OTG)" cable adapter to go from USB to micro USB to connect that converter to my phone (Samsung Note 5). Any recent andriod device that is USB OTG capable, and Andriod 4.0 or newer (I think) should be able to use the USB adapter with Torque. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YOX4JU6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

After buying those, I removed my blueteooth OBD2 transmitter and wired up the USB one. Before "hacking" the device (changing the baud rate) to achieve faster speeds, out of the box i got an average speed of closer to 40 PIDs/sec. Not quite what i was hoping for but still much faster than bluetooth. After a couple of days i decided to go ahead and modify the baud rate of the USB adapter to achieve faster speeds. Here is the exact procedure adding to what BlackSteal mentioned in the link above:

1. Open CoolTerm on your PC. Change connection settings to 38.4k baud (if this is the OBD2 device's original baud rate).
2. Plug in OBD2 to USB and power it up.
3. Hit connect with coolterm. Press Enter. Typing ATI and enter will confirm it is connected and repeat its version number.
4. Enter "AT PP 0C SV 23" (without the quotes) to set the OBD2 baud rate to 115.2k. It should respond with OK.
5. Enter "AT PP 0C ON" (without quotes) to tell the OBD2 to use the new baud rate. Should respond with OK
6. Power down the device and exit CoolTerm.
7. Reopen CoolTerm and set baud rate to 115.2k. Power on device, connect, hit enter, run ATI command, and confirm it responds with its version number using new baud rate to connect.
8. Change baud rate settings in Torque app to 57.6k baud, which is actually 115.2k baud.
9. Check your PIDs/sec in adapter status to see if you achieved faster speeds. You should now see closer to 200 PIDs/sec.

I can immedaitely tell that the realtime monitoring refreshes MUCH faster, unlike with the bluetooth where values would clearly be jumping around (i.e., not smooth) and lagging behind what was actually happening. To connect via USB you do have to make some changes in the Torque app to tell it that you are communicating via USB not bluetooth, set the BAUD rate for the device, and also select the specific device within Torque settings (you need to first plug it into your phone without Torque running so your phone detects it). Now when i plug in the USB cord to my phone after i start the car, Torque immediate launches and it connects after a few seconds. Basic instructions can be found here: USB - Torque OBD2 Wiki

Note: Another benefit of the USB OBD2 is that it will work with laptops. I have not yet tried any of the PC software to try and do realtime monitoring, logging, etc. I am just sticking to Torque for now.

Step 2: To get started, you only need to supply power to the converter, plug it into your car’s diagnostic port (in my case OBD1) using the cable purchased with the converter, and plug in your OBD2 BT to the converter’s output OBD2 plug. Of course later on you will probably want to wire in any other sensors you have like a Wideband O2, boost/pressure, oil pressure, etc, but that is optional and can be done later. For a permanent installation, a good place is under/behind the radio where the stock 1g radio amplifier is located. You will want to supply 12v that is only powered up with the ignition, such as radio supply power, or cig lighter power, both of which are in that area (you can just splice into the positive and ground to chassis somewhere nearby). For a temporary installation, or if you want to run this in multiple different cars, you can use this (I did for a few weeks before doing permanent install) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072KDLH54/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Update: For my more permanent installation, I tapped into the rear cig power by the ashtray. I did not even need to use quick splice connectors - I actually just shoved the positive and ground wires into the connectors where they slide into the terminals on the bottom of the cig lighter. I then ran the power wire forward where stock wires already run, up to under the dash forward of ECU on top of shifter tables. I made a small box to house the converter and OBD2 transmitter so it would fit snug and not slide around, vibrate, etc. You can then run the OBD1 cables above your feed (ziptie out of the way) and over to the middle of the car. If you are going to be doing this install, plan ahead so you can wire in all your other sensors at the same time. I wired in my WBO2, and because of the way the WBO2 harness is, I actually now have the WBO2 +12v and ground going into the converter on the power supply terminals so that it is powered up at the same time. This prevented from having to extend the signal wire as it is in the same loom as the +12v and ground.
See this post for some pictures of the wiring (this was before i added in boost pressure sensor and switched to ODB2 USB): http://www.3si.org/forum/f35/datalo...iscussion-q-811626/index2.html#post1056240706

Step 2.5: Extra sensors
If you are going to be doing any real datalogging, especially for tuning purposes, you are going to need some extra sensors wired into the converter. A WBO2 like AEM will have a signal wire that you wire into the converter on the correct terminal as labeled, and then you will need to run configuration using the serial cable to select the correct sensor voltage to AFR range (see the converter's manual http://lcdbc.xp3.biz/CanbusDeviceManual.pdf). I also bought a MPX4250AP from BlackStealth so that I could get boost pressure into torque (I do not have LCDBC, nor do I have an electronic boost gauge that has a signal wire - you would not need this if you have those). Wiring that in is very easy as the converter supplies the +5V and ground to the sensor, and of course the signal wire going into the conveter as well, so everything can be loomed together from under the the hood where the sensor itself is mounted into the car to the converter. The unit is VERY compact, only about the size of a quarter, and uses 3-4mm vacuum host. You can just T into something else off the plenum to supply vacuum/boost to it. Mine is mounted where the stock EGR/boost/etc solenoids are mounted on the firewall. After wiring it into the converter you will need to configure for that specific sensor, again using the serial cable as described in the manual. This is why its a good idea to plan ahead when you are doing the install so that you can wire everything in at the same time and do the configuration all at once (its a pain to pull this out to reconfigure depending on your length of wires and how many sensors are wired into it).
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Now on to my first set of logs, questions I have, and problems I think I discovered.

1. What is “Intake Air Temperature” from the stock OBD1 computer? Temperature at the MAF?
2. My car only has 2 stock O2 sensors (the ones after the turbos). Is Bank 1 the front or the rear?
3. Knock logged through Torque seems to be way higher than what I see on my SAFC 2. I know they are calculated in different ways, but anyone have an explanation for this? And is the one logged through torque the “better” and more accurate value?
4. The fuel trims on each bank are essentially a function of the voltage the O2 sensors are seeing right? It looks like the fuel trims (%) go from -100% to +100%, is this a fuel adjustment based on the sensor seeing rich or lean condition?
5. Is “Turbo Boost and Vacuum Gauge” basically the stock center gauge in the car that is calculated using ECU information (i.e., it’s not running on a vacuum line)?
6. Can you get IDC (injector duty cycle) from Torque somehow? Maybe from Engine load – what is Engine load %?

Now, a quick log I need help understanding. I think I opened a can of worms here because not only do I have a lot to learn, but I think I am finding problems I didn’t know I had. First a foremost, it seems that something is wrong with my Bank 2 sensor. In every log I did so far under different driving conditions it NEVER goes above 0.05 V, even when my wideband is reading close to 10.0 AFR under a WOT pull. The Bank 2 long term fuel trim is also always 0, and the short term trim is 10.16 (??) and these values never change. My Bank 1 sensor seems to vary from 0-1V as it should. These O2s were actually replaced with OEM (denso I think? From 3sx) only a few years ago…

A little bit of a backstory on this. Before I installed a wideband at the beginning of this year, my car had a NBO2 gauge (red to green, no #’s) and it would ALWAYS show all the way red, even when, which I know now from my wideband, it was running nearly 10.0 AFRs. So, I assume this was tapped into the Bank 2 sensor which is reading low voltage all the time… That seems to add up.

Now another thing I noticed is that I am getting a lot (I think?) of knock even when the car is clearly running rich under boost. I read several huge threads over the past few weeks about tuning with SAFC 2, so I know that using correction factors causes the IDC to decrease and the ECU to use more timing than it otherwise would. I am running RC 550cc injectors and other mods listed in my signature. Based on all the threads I read I think my SAFC 2 numbers are way off… but ill save that for another post once I understand these logs more. It looks like the ECU is pulling timing the crazy once it starts to see knock. Right now the car is set to 9-10psi, and although my wideband isn’t wired in to log yet, trust me when I say its basically 10.0 AFR when under high throttle.

Log is attached.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Alright so i extracted some of the information from the log i posted above and renamed the headings and reformatted so that it would hopefully be easier for people to see (especially on mobile). This is a 2nd gear pull with boost around 9-10psi and AFR on wideband (not in log yet) around 10.0. The IAT is from the ECU so i assume it is at the MAF inlet (see question above), and the Approx boost is from the ECU as well (not a boost gauge). Note that TPS of 14.5 is essentially 0% throttle. Load % is engine load from the ECU (see question above).

Trying to understand why I get so much knock (and then pulled timing) when i am clearly running rich... And also why my O2 on Bank2 (B2) seems to be unresponsive. Looking for input!

Code:
Time	Load (%) RPM	mph	TPS	Timing	Knock	MAF(Hz) O2 B1(V) B2(V)	IAT(F)	Approx Boost
29:30.6	7.84	2781.25	28.52	30.59	30	0	283	0.75	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:30.7	7.84	2781.25	28.52	30.59	30	0	283	0.75	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:30.8	7.84	2937.5	28.52	30.59	30	0	289	0.75	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:30.9	7.84	2937.5	28.52	30.59	30	0	289	0.43	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.0	7.84	2937.5	28.52	30.59	30	0	289	0.43	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.1	7.84	2937.5	28.52	30.59	30	0	289	0.43	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.2	7.84	3000	28.52	30.59	30	0	289	0.43	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.3	7.84	3000	28.52	30.59	30	0	289	0.72	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.4	7.84	3000	30.62	30.59	30	0	289	0.72	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.5	7.84	3000	30.62	30.59	30	0	289	0.72	0.04	78.8	-11.06
29:31.6	7.84	3031.25	30.62	30.59	30	0	289	0.72	0.04	78.8	-7.43
29:31.7	7.84	3031.25	30.62	30.59	31	0	289	0.72	0.04	78.8	-7.43
29:31.8	7.84	3031.25	30.62	30.59	31	0	289	0.66	0.04	78.8	-7.43
29:31.9	7.84	3031.25	30.62	30.59	31	0	289	0.66	0.04	78.8	-7.43
29:32.0	7.84	3031.25	30.62	30.59	31	0	540	0.66	0.04	78.8	-1.54
29:32.1	34.51	3125	30.62	30.59	31	0	540	0.66	0.04	78.8	-1.54
29:32.2	34.51	3125	30.62	30.59	24	0	540	0.66	0.04	80.6	-1.54
29:32.3	34.51	3125	30.62	70.2	24	0	540	0.82	0.04	80.6	-1.54
29:32.4	34.51	3125	32.75	70.2	24	0	540	0.82	0.04	80.6	-1.54
29:32.5	34.51	3125	32.75	70.2	24	0	798	0.82	0.04	80.6	-1.54
29:32.6	34.51	3437.5	32.75	70.2	24	0	798	0.82	0.04	80.6	4.07
29:32.7	43.92	3437.5	32.75	70.2	24	0	798	0.82	0.04	80.6	4.07
29:32.8	43.92	3437.5	32.75	98.43	18	0	798	0.98	0.04	80.6	4.07
29:32.9	43.92	3437.5	32.75	98.43	18	0	798	0.98	0.04	80.6	4.07
29:33.0	43.92	3437.5	32.75	98.43	18	3	1006	0.98	0.04	80.6	4.07
29:33.1	43.92	3781.25	32.75	98.43	18	3	1006	0.98	0.04	80.6	6.75
29:33.2	50.2	3781.25	32.75	98.43	18	3	1006	0.98	0.04	80.6	6.75
29:33.3	50.2	3781.25	38.32	98.43	7	3	1006	0.98	0.04	80.6	6.75
29:33.4	50.2	3781.25	38.32	98.43	7	3	1006	0.98	0.04	80.6	6.75
29:33.5	50.2	3781.25	38.32	98.43	7	19	1157	0.98	0.04	80.6	6.75
29:33.6	50.2	3781.25	38.32	98.43	7	19	1157	0.98	0.04	80.6	8.54
29:33.7	51.37	4281.25	38.32	98.43	7	19	1157	0.98	0.04	80.6	8.54
29:33.8	51.37	4281.25	38.32	98.43	8	19	1157	0.98	0.04	78.8	8.54
29:33.9	51.37	4281.25	38.32	98.43	8	19	1157	1	0.04	78.8	8.54
29:34.0	51.37	4281.25	38.32	98.43	8	19	1157	1	0.04	78.8	8.54
29:34.1	51.37	4281.25	38.32	98.43	8	18	1270	1	0.04	78.8	8.54
29:34.2	51.37	4750	38.32	98.43	8	18	1270	1	0.04	78.8	7.7
29:34.3	51.37	4750	46.17	98.43	10	18	1270	1	0.04	78.8	7.7
29:34.4	51.37	4750	46.17	98.43	10	18	1270	1.01	0.04	78.8	7.7
29:34.5	51.37	4750	46.17	98.43	10	18	1270	1.01	0.04	78.8	7.7
29:34.6	51.37	4750	46.17	98.43	10	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	7.7
29:34.7	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	10	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:34.8	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:34.9	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.0	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.1	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.2	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.3	50.2	4843.75	46.17	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.4	50.2	4843.75	53.8	98.43	14	17	1339	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.5	50.2	4843.75	53.8	98.43	14	19	1534	1.01	0.04	78.8	5.91
29:35.6	50.2	4843.75	53.8	98.43	14	19	1534	1.01	0.04	78.8	8.41
29:35.7	51.37	5781.25	53.8	98.43	14	19	1534	1.01	0.04	77	8.41
29:35.8	51.37	5781.25	53.8	98.43	14	19	1534	1	0.04	77	8.41
29:35.9	51.37	5781.25	53.8	98.43	14	19	1534	1	0.04	77	8.41
29:36.0	51.37	5781.25	53.8	98.43	14	19	1603	1	0.04	77	8.41
29:36.1	51.37	5781.25	53.8	98.43	14	19	1603	1	0.04	77	5.51
29:36.2	51.37	5781.25	53.8	98.43	15	19	1603	1	0.04	77	5.51
29:36.3	51.37	5781.25	53.8	14.51	15	19	1603	0.98	0.04	77	5.51
29:36.4	51.37	5781.25	61.22	14.51	15	19	1603	0.98	0.04	77	5.51
29:36.5	51.37	5781.25	61.22	14.51	15	5	94	0.98	0.04	77	5.51
29:36.6	51.37	5781.25	61.22	14.51	15	5	94	0.98	0.04	77	-13.74
29:36.7	0.78	5781.25	61.22	14.51	15	5	94	0.98	0.04	77	-13.74
29:36.8	0.78	5781.25	61.22	14.51	42	5	94	0.94	0.04	77	-13.74
29:36.9	0.78	5781.25	61.22	14.51	42	5	94	0.94	0.04	77	-13.74
29:37.0	0.78	5781.25	61.22	14.51	42	0	44	0.94	0.04	77	-13.74
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the reply and info. I updated my first post with some of the information you provided about the sensors and whatnot so that other people reading will have all the info in one place.

As far as my car goes, I'm pretty convinced that my rear O2 sensor is bad, and has been for some time. I'm actually thinking that it has been bad off the shelf when I installed it a few years ago. I tried to look up a way to test of O2 sensors but I couldn't find anything (unless i physically swapped front to rear or something, but the front is a real pain). I will try unplugging it but what should the voltage read when it is unplugged? Wouldn't it still just read 0?

As far as my knock problem, I'm not really sure what to think... I am beginning to suspect that i am having a fuel problem with one or more specific injectors, and maybe that is causing me to get really bad knock in one or more cylinders even though my overall AFR on the wideband is rich. The more research i do, the more it seems like my SAFC 2 numbers are also way off what they should be. For example at warm idle it has a -30 correction and has a AFR of 17-18:1, but with 550cc a -35 correction should be the baseline for correcting back to 360cc? At partial throttle (15-20%) on the freeway it only has -15 correction and is in the 12.5-13:1 range and at WOT it also has a -15 correction but is at 10:1? Something seems wrong for sure.

FWIW the car was dyno tuned a couple years ago (and these numbers were set) by a reputable shop in southern California that does know 3000gts and is familar with SAFC2. I haven't really changed anything since then aside from repairs and maintainance, and i looked at the dyno sheet and they tuned it at 10.5:1 AFR at WOT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Also another question for BlackStealth or anyone else who has this device hooked up and is using torque:

What kind of refresh rate are you seeing for realtime ECU data? Based on my logging at 0.1 second interval it looks like values only change every 0.5-1 sec, and it seems about the same in realtime monitor. I tried enabling faster communication in the settings but that didn't make any difference. Is the bottleneck the communication between my phone and the OBD2 bluetooth device?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know it is definitely the rear O2 that is at fault. Unplugging it made zero difference. I am also suspicious of the wiring though. See my posts here: http://www.3si.org/forum/f35/rear-p...ation-datalog-included-811794/#post1056237066

I am also getting a peak of 28 PIDs/sec with the adapter linked in my first post, with faster communication enabled. It was even slower without that. My average is still only around 14/sec though, which seems like barely enough to extract a meaningful datalog when you are doing WOT pulls. I assume this means if you are logging 7 PIDs that you will only get a refresh rate of about 0.5 sec in your log (on average).



Just to confirm by "monitor" do you mean the PIDs that you specifically select to log, or the number of things that you are viewing in real time? Can you actually disable the app from reading sensors that you are not interested in to speed things up? It seems like it is always scanning everything from the ECU, and you can just select a subset of these to display in real time, or to log when you start a log file.

I also confirmed that even when both my O2 sensors were working and cycling in closed-loop, the Bank 1 fuel trims (short term, long term, etc) reported in the logs never changed, so there is no reason to log those. Bank 2 do change, but probably better to just log Volts from each bank instead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If for example you get 28 PIDS/sec, and you only monitor two PIDS (aka items), then they will only update 14 times/second. If you increase that to four PIDS, it drops down to 7 times/second. If you monitor 28 PIDS, they will only update once a second.
This is exactly what i was getting at. I will need to do a back to back test with say 14 PIDs logged then only a few to see if I can clearly see that my log is updating more frequently.

If you add more items to your screen, they will slow down.
This is what I am not entirely sure about yet. There are many screens on the realtime monitor page, but you can only see one of them at a time. Right now I am really only using one of them that i customized to have the information i want to see while driving. Since I am only using this screen i guess i will go to all of the other screens and remove all of the "gauges" and things that are displayed on those to hopefully make the screen I am actually using to monitor real time refresh as fast as possible. This is what I am showing right now (will add WBO2 once wired in) - the car is not connected so no data is displayed.



As for datalogging, does Torque let you choose which items to datalog? If so, then the less you choose, the faster refresh rate you get.
Yes, there is explicit configuration for which PIDs you want to log when you start datalogging. You go into settings --> data logging & upload --> select what to log, and then select the PIDs you want to be logged when you start a new log one at a time. I will do a few tests to see if I can tell in my logs that fewer PIDs definitely speeds up how often they are updated as mentioned above. That will confirm the correlation between # of PIDs selected to log and how fast they are updated in the log.

The other test will be to see if the # of PIDs shown on the realtime monitor screen(s) affects how fast they are updated there, and if this has any effect on how quickly they are updated in the log.

Now if you're just doing tuning, you may just want to stick to RPM, Boost, WBO2, and knock. If you're looking for some other problems, then you can change those PIDS to reflect that.
Agree with that which is what I realized after starting with logging about 20 PIDs just to get as much information as possible. This is how i found the problem with my rear O2 sensor. For now I am keeping on some extra stuff until I solve that, then will reduce to only essential PIDs for tuning.

As usual thanks for the quick replies! I am continuously updating the first post in this thread with info as we discuss and learn more about this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
When I used a $12 cheap ELM327 adapter with an (FTDI chipset) USB cable (non-bluetooth), it was over 200 samples/sec.

Coming back to this, how exactly did you get the USB adapter to connect to your android head unit in that way with torque app? Does your head unit have a USB port on the back?

I did a little searching and it looks like i would need something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-USB...I-FT232RL-Chip-PIC18F25K80-v1-4-/232058940291
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0027YYMU6/ref=psdc_172544_t2_B00D8YZ2SA

With the 2nd item being the adapter so that I could use it with my android phone. Can you post the link to the "$12 cheap ELM327 adapter with an (FTDI chipset) USB cable" that you bought? Was it this with the FTDI option ("color") selected?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD-2-ELM3...hash=item4b3f0afa42:m:mEy3sW91OQYv5bE_AHAFXsg
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I ended up just ordering the one from the last link i posted that you said you got. It's from China so its gonna take a while to get to me. I got a OTG adapter for USB to micro USB so I can hopefully use with my phone. I saw on torque forum that a OBDLink SX USB adapter was used with a Note 3 phone, so I hope the one i ordered works with my Note 5. Although i thought i remembered reading somewhere that only Android 4.0 was supporting (not that or newer, but specifically that one). I guess I'll find out.

I tried removing all the unnecessary gauges from my realtime monitoring pages and it didnt seem to make a difference with how often the ones on the page I am actually using/viewing are refreshed/updated. It looks like they update about every 0.5 sec or so and I have 10 on that page, so i guess that makes sense with an average PID/sec of 20.

As far as reducing the number of items datalogged to check if that speeds up how often they are updated in the log data, I still need to test that, but I'm pretty confident it will. I'm still trying to fix an issue with my rear O2 sensor and find the time to wire in my wideband to your converter, then ill change my logging settings. Right now I have my logging interval (how often they are written into file) at 0.25 sec with 14 PIDs logged and it looks like they are updated roughly every 0.5 sec, so consistent with my average/max PID/sec speed i was seeing through bluetooth.

I also still have a big knock problem even though i turned my boost down to wastegate (6-7psi), am running rich (10:1 AFR) and its cold outside (ambient ~60 and even MAF temp is only 70F). Will dive deeper into this after i fix my rear O2 and wire in the wideband. For now just staying out of boost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So i finally got around to doing a more permanent install of the converter today. I also took the time to wire in my Wideband O2. It took several hours, but I was taking my time and taking breaks to plan out exactly how i was going to run the wires and doing lots of tests (measure 100 times cut once approach). Yesterday I also installed a new rear oxygen sensor, which seemed to fix the problem with my rear O2 reading (near) zero volts, which was also preventing the car from going into closed loop - see this thread for details on that: http://www.3si.org/forum/f35/rear-p...losed-loop-operation-datalog-included-811794/

I chose to supply power to the converter from the rear cig lighter near the ashtray. The way my wideband is wired now means that these power wires are supplying power to both the converter and the wideband (it made the most sense to do it this way with how the wideband harness is). Shouldnt be a problem though as the wideband is rated at 1.3 amps max and the converter takes very little power.

I took some pictures and will update the first post on this thread with more details on my install procedure once i have more time. In summary i removed the factory 1g amp behind the radio, tapped into that cig power to supply power to the converter and the wideband, ran the harness from the wideband in a gauge pod down under the dash over to behind the radio to get power and supply the 0-5V (white wire on AEM) to the converter for input/logging in Torque, made a small box to hold the converter and OBD2 bluetooth, and then put everything back together.

These 3 pictures summarize the install. Again, more detailed writeup coming soon on the first post in this thread.

Power wires tapped in:


White wire is the power wire supplied by BlackStealth


Wires connected before positioning box behind radio.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey BlackStealth quick question:

Since I dont have a digital boost gauge that has a signal wire, I'm looking for a inexpensive way to get a signal for boost to input into your converter (and thus to Torque). I am wondering if something like this would work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pressure-t...1000-psi-for-oil-fuel-air-water-/312004049546

Specifically i would get the 30psi since i never plan to run more boost than that. I could then just fit this to a vacuum/boost port somewhere on the plenum.

I see on your converter you have some "+5V sensor output" and "Ground for sensor" pins - are these what i would use to supply the +5V power to that sensor (it specifically says it needs 5V signal not 12V). And then i would use the "Sensor 2 signal 0-5V" to take the signal in from that sensor so I could get it in Torque?

I assume then I would need a custom PID to convert that sensor signal input from voltage to psi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ah i see. So is it something like this? So essentially just the 3 wires to the converter and a vacuum line for boost? Do they also read vacuum or only boost (e.g., positive pressure)?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-GM-Sty...tive-Motec-Megasquirt-With-Plug-/302055807310

Of course I am skeptical of anything ebay that seems "too cheap" and most of the low priced ones on amazon also have bad reviews. Is that different from the one you have? I'd rather not risk getting one that doesn't work properly to save a few $, so if yours is tested with the converter and is better quality then I am interested in buying that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
The MPX450AP I see for that price is from China lol. Also it has a bunch of extra pins but i guess only 1-3 are used from what i read. Probably avoid that one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-X-PCS-Pressure-sensor-MPX4250AP-/331509847674

The GM 3 Bar you have for sale looks essentially the same as the one I linked in my previous post, but is of better quality? (e.g., it has the harness plug/connection with 3 wires coming off?)

I also realized I would need the proper cable to connect to your converter to do the configuration. Is that a general item I can order online or do I also need that from you? Sorry if you answered that elsewhere already, I did read the other threads but can't remember. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thanks for doing all that, I appreciate it and it really clears up what they look like and how I would mount/wire them.

So the MPX4250AP from you would be $18 plus shipping? I dont ever plan to run over 22psi so I think that will work well for me. Would it come as the "final product" you already made (e.g., 5th and 6th images from the top) where there is only a short wire a white plug on the end? Or can you make one with the length of wire you mentioned so that I would have enough wire length to mount the unit in the engine bay (where you show in picture essentially) and then run the 3 wires along firewall, through hole by brake booster, then inside car and back to behind radio where i have your converter? I wouldn't need the white plug on the end just enough wire to go all the way to the converter in the car. Your electronics workmanship is much better than mine haha.

My only other question is how i would configure the converter to work with the MPX4250AP if it wasn't already ready for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Anyhow, I can build you one with a long 10 foot cable (no need for the extra connector in between).
Perfect, I will reply to your PM right now about this.

You need either a notebook with a serial cable, or a notebook with a USB-to-serial adapter to access the configuration menus inside the canbus adapter. See manual:
http://lcdbc.xp3.biz/CanbusDeviceManual.pdf
Just to confirm before i order it, this would work?
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Conv...525302402&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+to+serial+cable

I see now in the manual that the MPX4250AP is one of the pre-defined boost pressure senors so that answered my other question (plug and play after configuration of converter for this specific sensor).

Thanks again for all your help and replies. I hope others reading this thread learn through all my questions and buy more of your awesome electronics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Just a quick update that I received all of the parts I ordered - your MPX sensor, the serial cable, my OBD2 USB adapter (to test if i can get it to work with faster speeds on torque with a android phone since bluetooth is somewhat slow), and some other misc stuff i needed to improve my datalogging capabilities with your converter.

I must say the MPX sensor is MUCH smaller than it looked in the pictures. Not a bad thing, i was just shocked at how small it was when i opened the box lol. I should have some time this weekend to install the MPX, wire into the converter, reconfigure it for that sensor, and test the OBD2-USB with my phone. Will update this thread once i do all that. I'm really hoping the USB adapter will work with my phone so that I can get fast logging speeds. That combined with boost and WBO2 in my logs will hopefully help me track down my knock issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Info on using USB ELM327 adapter, setting the baud rate, and how to hack it if you want 100% perfection. Someone should ask the author of Torque to offer custom baud rate option, so the end user doesn't have to do any hacks.

http://www.3si.org/forum/9618569-post157.html
Thanks for the link, i remembered seeing that in the other thread and was going to have to track it down.

Another quick question about the calibration in your converter for the WBO2. It looks like my AEM WBO2 should be a [email protected] to [email protected] but it seems that it always reads high on Torque compared to the gauge itself. It seems to be around 0.5 AFR higher on Torque throughout the operating range. The gauge itself only reads from 10.0 to 18.0, any more lean and it goes to -- on the gauge. Torque will read 19.1 when the gauge is on -- (under no throttle decel conditions for example).

http://aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-4110 Digital Wideband UEGO Gauge.pdf

Is the default configuration in the converter set to the 10.0-20.0, option C? Or is it set to B so i need to change it to read properly with my AEM?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
This is a continuation of the first opening post in this thread. I had to separate into multiple posts because of the 10000 character limit. Please see the first post in this thread for the first few steps and lots of additional information. http://www.3si.org/forum/f35/datalo...converter-discussion-q-811626/#post1056235322

Step 3: Most of the default settings in torque are fine at first, but you may need to go into settings, OBD2 adapter seetings, and choose Bluetooth as the connection type (or Wifi or USB if you have that type), choose the Bluetooth device (you should have already paired to it through your phone's bluetooth, usually passkey is 1234), and optionally enable faster communication, then restart the app. Once you have everything powered up and plugged in, you can turn on the car (at least to 2nd click, but I would just start it), open the torque app, and hopefully it says Connected to ECU OK after a few seconds. You should be able to go into realtime information and see basic things like RPM working. You can configure these pages to display relevant information with a varity of gauges/readouts as you see fit. For USB connection you may have to go through a few more steps (see above under Step 1). You will want to use different gauge displays for different types of data so you can easily see information at a glance. For example i like the line graph for knock so you can easily see if it goes above 0 (and it keeps a few seconds of history traced), whereas you probably just want numbers displayed for things like intake air temp or boost. The bar graphs are good for something like coolant, so you can easily see how warmed up the car is (and it also displays numeric value). You can change the number of digits displayed as well. For example, for O2 volts (stock narrow band O2s), you need to increase to 2 numbers after the decimal so that you can accurately see voltage. For intake air temp, knock, etc, you can just show 0 after the decimal to get the whole number. (I attached a screenshot of my current realtime monitoring screen setup.)

Now you will also need to load BlackStealth’s custom PIDs to get knocksum information from the ECU and also to get the extra terminals on the converter for the WBO2 and other inputs to work and display/log meaningful information through the Torque app. See this post: http://www.3si.org/forum/f1/new-inv...ead-flex-fuel-785610/index11.html#post9491162. I was able to email the custom PID file provided by BlackStealth to myself, download it on my phone, go into my phone's filemanager, enable show hidden files, then copy the file into the correct folder for the torque app. After it is in there, you just have to go into Torque to load the custom PIDs (only has to be done once). See this page for instructions on adding custom PIDs: How to add extended PIDs | TorqueBHP Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

Here is some general information about OBD2 PIDS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs
and about the ELM327 OBD2 interface, including some hardware and software options: https://interfusellc.com/elm327/
And some information about setting baud rates: https://www.scantool.net/blog/switching-communication-baud-rate/


Step 4: Before you start datalogging, you will need to go through and select everything that you want to log, and go through other settings like how often values are written into the logfile, and formatting them to 2 decimal places. I would recommend going through basically every menu of the app and checking the settings before you go out to do any real datalogging, and even then, it will probably take a few tries to get everything setup the way you want it. If you do multiple logs on the same day they will actually be put into the same CSV file, and the column headers will be reprinted every time you start a new log (and you can separate them later into separate logs if you wish). So, don't be surprised if you go out and go several short logs and then only see 1 logfile when you go to export the logs. Also, there is a note in the app that the more sensors you select to log, the slower the sensor refresh rate will be. Depending on the speed of your OBD2 connection (PIDs/sec) and the number of items selected to log, you may only get values updated about every 0.5 seconds (at least with a non-USB OBD2 device), so setting the values to be written every 0.1 second will create many duplicate entries in your logs. So while you may want to select a whole bunch of sensors on your first few logs to make sure everything looks normal, you may want to reduce down to only the essentials when doing datalogging for tuning (to hopefully achieve a refresh rate faster than 0.5 seconds) - see the bolded items below for some ideas. Or, get a faster OBD2 transmitter.

Now a list of things that are available and could be useful to log [this will be updated] (time of day is automatically column 1 of the log):

1. RPM
2. Speed (GPS from phone)
3. Engine Coolant Temperature
4. Timing Advance
5. Intake Air Temperature - This is at the MAF for a stock car, so it gives an indication of inlet air temps/underhood temps. You would need an aftermarket sensor to get temperature after the turbos/ICs.
6. Throttle Position (Manifold) - For me, 14.5% is throttle closed at idle, and 98.5% is WOT. Apparently <10% will throw a CEL.
7. Knock (Requires loading custom PIDs from BlackStealth) - Knocksum from the ECU, ranges 0-26, and much more accurate indication of knock than SAFC 2 readout. This is probably the most important thing to monitor when you are doing any kind of aggressive driving.
8. O2 Volts Bank 1 and Bank 2 - These are the stock narrow band O2 sensors. My car only has 2 stock O2 sensors, so for me i only selected sensor 1 on each bank. If you have a car with 4 O2s, you may want to also select sensor 2 on each bank. Bank 1 is the front O2 and and Bank 2 is the rear O2 (right after the turbos for sensor 1). The range is 0-1V, with 0 being lean and 1 being rich. These should cycle for a target 14.7 AFR when you are in closed loop.
9. Fuel Trim Bank 1 and Bank 2 (and sensor 2 if your car is equipped), short term, long term, etc - Not sure about this for OBD1 cars, see BlackStealth's post below. Regardless, these should be a function of the O2 Volts anyways. After more testing it seems that Bank 1 fuel trims never change in the log, so they should not be selected for logging. Bank 2 fuel trims do change, but to minimize the amount of PIDs logged (and maximize refresh rate), it is probably best to only log O2 voltage at each bank.
10. MAF Airflow (in Hz, requires custom PIDs loaded) - Essentially indicates how much air you are sucking in through the MAF.
11. Wideband O2 Sensor (WBO2) (requires you installing one, wiring signal wire into converter, and custom PIDs loaded) - Very important if you want to tune, since ideally you will want timing advance, knock, and WBO2 AFR all at once (among other things).
12. Any other aftermarket sensors you have such as oil pressure, boost pressure, and flex fuel (requires installation, wiring to converter, and custom PIDs).
13. Boost Pressure - I bought a MPX4250AP sensor from BlackStealth. It has a maximum pressure of 22psi. I wired it into the converter as described above, and ran the configuration using the serial cable (see above) as described in the converter's manual to configure it for that specific sensor.

Later on you may want to add additional "cool" information into your logs such as acceleration and performance stats. Note that this list is for an OBD1 car, and other sensors may be available from a stock ECU is later generations.

Step 5: Try and understand the datalog. After you stop a log, you can easily email it to yourself. You can then open the CSV file in excel or any other program. I plan to either make a excel template that will automatically plot some data of interest, or write a MATLAB script to do it, but haven't had time yet. I will post here when i do. That way i can just open the log and immedaitely see a plot of things like knock/timing/AFR versus RPM (similar to what you would see on a dyno). But looking at the numbers is OK too, especially when you are mostly concerned with things like knock, timing, and AFR for "performance" logging, or you are looking at something specific trying to track down an issue. More to come...

Step 6: Tune.

To be continued…
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Okay so I just made lots of updates to the setup, install, etc, in the first post and also in the post above since I had to separate it into 2 separate posts now due to the length.

BlackStealth - I didnt yet try your hacks to try and get faster speeds out of my USB OBD2, but I am only seeing about 50 PIDs/sec out of the box. A little disappointed with that. Are the instructions that you gave at the link good for any OBD2 USB, so I should be able to run do exactly what you described to change the baud rate and get faster speeds? I don't even know exactly what you meant by changing the crystal so thats probably outside the scope of what i would do. I just want to make sure I dont ruin/brick my USB OBD2 by doing something incorrectly in CoolTerm. Did you plug it into your PC by itself via USB (e.g., no connected to or powered up via OBD2)? Then opened CoolTerm to communicate with it, ran the "AT PP 0C SV 23" command, which i assume is what changed the baud rate, then exited and reconnected to test at higher baud rate? This is what i have: https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD-2-ELM3...var=512264744084&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Here are some pictures of the USB OBD2 and the converter after i wired in the MPX4250AP sensor that I got from BlackStealth. The 10 ft of wire was probably overkill because now I have a bunch of extra bundled back there but oh well. I started the car and it seemed good, wont get to try and drive it and boost until tomorrow. I really like how my USB cable is wired, it is very hidden and reaches pretty much exactly to my phone mount with no extra wire (see picture below). I just need to get some faster speeds...









 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Thanks for explaining in more detail and providing more info. Yeah I will probably trim down the excess wires once i get everything working exactly how I want and don't plan to move things around or make anymore changes. I will try and do the baud rate change sometime in the near future when i get a chance to achieve faster speeds.

And yes, it does seem that my WBO2 values in torque become incorrect and jump to a completely random value once every few seconds. I think this is the only PID that is affected by this, although im not 100% sure. I just did a quick search about the crystals… it seems they are inexpensive, but is it an easy swap? Like popping open the case to expose the board and then unplug/insert new crystal? Or is it a delicate soldering operation? I tried to look at a picture of the FTDI board but it wasn’t clear to me. I see the crystals for cheap, but I decide to go that route and I could buy one from you that I know will work I would probably do that lol. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-4-032-MHz-4-032MHz-Crystal-HC-49-S-Low-Profile-/260816279351

Right now I am trying to figure out why I am getting very different boost pressure (psi) readings from my analog boost gauge (autometer) and the MPX4250AP. I mean consistently different, not randomly different as would be suspect from the crystal issue. At idle/vacuum it seems they are very close, showing -9 to -10 psi in Torque and showing almost -20 inhg on my gauge. However once I go close to 0 vacuum and into boost the values diverge significantly. If I hold the car at part throttle so that my gauge reads right at 0, the 4250AP is showing right about 4psi. And if I go into boost it consistently reads about 5-6psi higher than my gauge. Right now my MBC is turned all the way down so I should be running wastegate pressure of about 6-7psi, which is what my gauge reads, whereas torque is showing 11-12 psi from the 4250AP. I’m really inclined to believe the gauge because of that.
They are connected to different vacuum sources right now however. And yes my first test will be to put them on the same source and see if they still read different, I just didn’t have the vacuum T’s and hoses to do that yesterday. My boost gauge is off the plenum on the same fitting as the brake booster (there is a brass T directly off the plenum so the boost gauge line is not spliced into the brake booster line itself. My car came like this). My line for the 4250AP is T’d off of the plenum vacuum fitting that loops around to the fuel pressure regulator (the fuel pressure control solenoid on the firewall for hot starts is bypassed, 4250AP is essentially in its place, sharing a vacuum port directly off the plenum with the FPR with nothing else on it).
Now I thought I read somewhere else that you aren’t supposed to get boost reference off the same port as the brake booster? Is that true? I know there is a check valve or whatever but the T where the vacuum hose attaches for the gauge is on the plenum itself, “upstream” from the brake booster. I have no idea if the FPR would affect the vacuum/boost signal? I wanted to see what the FPR was seeing for boost though that’s part of the reason why I put the 4250AP there on that line to start with.

And yes, I ran the configuration on the device for the 4250AP:


 
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