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1992 3000gt VR4, Fiji Blue
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Car was sitting and was making clicking sounds, battery died recharged and was able to drive to get gas and came home. Sat for a day and battery died then the car would not crank even after charging battery. Any ideas as to what it could be I am assuming it will be the ignition switch or the starter or safety switch but would like to get some help as I am pretty new to the platform. (Pictures are of rat nest wiring from previous owner under steering column that could possibly be the cause as there are loose connectors)


 

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Car was sitting and was making clicking sounds, battery died recharged and was able to drive to get gas and came home. Sat for a day and battery died then the car would not crank even after charging battery.
"Car was sitting and was making clicking sounds".....???? don't know what sitting means...? running/idling.....? key on but engine not running....? key not in ignition. Where was the clicking location ? You need to measure actual battery voltages...."dead and recharged" are just guesses at best. Very very frequently, a "bad" battery has an internal short between two of the six plates, or a dead cell. When running or externally charged or jump started, the battery will recharge to 12.6V+ like normal. Once the charging stops, no matter the process used, the internal voltage begins to drop slowly in those batteries and in an hour/ a few hours, the voltage has dropped to 10ish-mid 11ish volts and cannot crank the starter. So you need to measure the actual voltage when it won't start to see if low voltage is the cause, even if you think it fully charged. Remove battery, take it to auto store and ask them to "load test it". When you rule the battery out, only then should you begin looking for parasitic draws,bad starter, starter circuitry, etc.,
 

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1992 3000gt VR4, Fiji Blue
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
"Car was sitting and was making clicking sounds".....???? don't know what sitting means...? running/idling.....? key on but engine not running....? key not in ignition. Where was the clicking location ? You need to measure actual battery voltages...."dead and recharged" are just guesses at best. Very very frequently, a "bad" battery has an internal short between two of the six plates, or a dead cell. When running or externally charged or jump started, the battery will recharge to 12.6V+ like normal. Once the charging stops, no matter the process used, the internal voltage begins to drop slowly in those batteries and in an hour/ a few hours, the voltage has dropped to 10ish-mid 11ish volts and cannot crank the starter. So you need to measure the actual voltage when it won't start to see if low voltage is the cause, even if you think it fully charged. Remove battery, take it to auto store and ask them to "load test it". When you rule the battery out, only then should you begin looking for parasitic draws,bad starter, starter circuitry, etc.,
Hey thanks for the reply,
Sorry for lack of info, I don’t have much knowledge about the clicking sound or where it was coming from as I was told by someone in my house that it was clicking while sitting and I was not home. By sitting I mean completely off in my garage, I was planning on taking the battery to a store today I was just unsure on if it would be the batter due to the fact that I can charge it to where the lights pop up and the dash lights and interior lights are at regular brightness but the car will not crank. Will update this later as the situation continues
 

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1992 3000gt VR4, Fiji Blue
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
"Car was sitting and was making clicking sounds".....???? don't know what sitting means...? running/idling.....? key on but engine not running....? key not in ignition. Where was the clicking location ? You need to measure actual battery voltages...."dead and recharged" are just guesses at best. Very very frequently, a "bad" battery has an internal short between two of the six plates, or a dead cell. When running or externally charged or jump started, the battery will recharge to 12.6V+ like normal. Once the charging stops, no matter the process used, the internal voltage begins to drop slowly in those batteries and in an hour/ a few hours, the voltage has dropped to 10ish-mid 11ish volts and cannot crank the starter. So you need to measure the actual voltage when it won't start to see if low voltage is the cause, even if you think it fully charged. Remove battery, take it to auto store and ask them to "load test it". When you rule the battery out, only then should you begin looking for parasitic draws,bad starter, starter circuitry, etc.,
Just came back from going to the auto store and the battery is charged and all electrical components are in tact and working but it is still not cranking. Could it be the fuse pictured? Or should I begin testing my starter, ignition switch, clutch safety switch and such?when I turn the key it just makes a low buzzing sound but does not crank

 

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93 NA ATX 3000gt DOHC
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..................... Could it be the fuse pictured? ....................
Not that for sure, that’s #4 fusible link that feeds the ignition switch. It’s clearly not burnt and if it was the ignition switch wouldn’t do anything when turned.

Not sure where to tell you to start, it would be nice if you could run down where the buzzing sound is coming from when somebody holds key in start position. Does it buzz if you don’t push clutch down?

I’m mostly concerned by the added wiring butt splices I see in your pictures, indicating somebody has been altering the wiring for some unknown reason. Also looks like someone has been messing with data link connector, it’s not in it’s normal position attach at side of fuse box.
 

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Just came back from going to the auto store and the battery is charged and all electrical components are in tact and working but it is still not cranking. Could it be the fuse pictured? Or should I begin testing my starter, ignition switch, clutch safety switch and such?
Do you have a multi-meter to perform any testing on the starting circuits and the components you referenced?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Not that for sure, that’s #4 fusible link that feeds the ignition switch. It’s clearly not burnt and if it was the ignition switch wouldn’t do anything when turned.

Not sure where to tell you to start, it would be nice if you could run down where the buzzing sound is coming from when somebody holds key in start position. Does it buzz if you don’t push clutch down?

I’m mostly concerned by the added wiring butt splices I see in your pictures, indicating somebody has been altering the wiring for some unknown reason. Also looks like someone has been messing with data link connector, it’s not in it’s normal position attach at side of fuse box.
Currently don’t have the battery as it died and I left it with a friend to charge, so I cannot test if it buzzes without the clutch, will update when I pick it up after work. Same with the exact location of the buzzing. However I suspect it is the alternator due to my battery continuously dying after being charged.

About the wiring I am also concerned by this under the steering column due to the previous owner poorly adding a quick release steering wheel and generally messing up the car. I have been in the process of trying to fix the wiring under there and I was able to put on the OE wheel but I am not sure where to even start with the wiring under the steering wheel and at the pedals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not that for sure, that’s #4 fusible link that feeds the ignition switch. It’s clearly not burnt and if it was the ignition switch wouldn’t do anything when turned.

Not sure where to tell you to start, it would be nice if you could run down where the buzzing sound is coming from when somebody holds key in start position. Does it buzz if you don’t push clutch down?

I’m mostly concerned by the added wiring butt splices I see in your pictures, indicating somebody has been altering the wiring for some unknown reason. Also looks like someone has been messing with data link connector, it’s not in it’s normal position attach at side of fuse box.
Just got home from work and have the battery charged. Put it back in and I can turn the key while the clutch is not pressed down but when the clutch is in it makes a high hitched sort of buzz, what could this be? I am suspecting the alternator but I am not sure here is a link to a video of turning the key with and without the clutch in:
 

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1993 Mitsubishi 3000gt Vr4 (running) 1993 Mitsubishi 3000gt Vr4 (project) 1994 sl (sold)
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Just got home from work and have the battery charged. Put it back in and I can turn the key while the clutch is not pressed down but when the clutch is in it makes a high hitched sort of buzz, what could this be? I am suspecting the alternator but I am not sure here is a link to a video of turning the key with and without the clutch in:
Hi I suspect your video you uploaded may not have actually uploaded correctly, correct me if I’m wrong.
 

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Just got home from work and have the battery charged. Put it back in and I can turn the key while the clutch is not pressed down but when the clutch is in it makes a high hitched sort of buzz, what could this be? I am suspecting the alternator but I am not sure here is a link to a video of turning the key with and without the clutch in:
I’m not sure I hear the buzz but maybe when I see the 4WS & ANTI LOCK indicators come on I might make out a humming sound. Not sure if the lights indicate when you pressed clutch down or not.:unsure:

Just so you understand with clutch not pressed the starter will not try to engage when key turned to start position, but when clutch is pressed down and key turned to start position starter will try to engage. Since the buzz/hum is only when starter attempts to engage, I suspect there’s either low voltage to starter, or to starter solenoid, or problem with starter or solenoid. This would explain the no crank situation.

Alternator can not stop starter from working, in fact the is starter circuit is good the engine will start even with belt off the alternator or it completely removed from car. We’ll cover testing starter circuit with multimeter in next post.
 

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I will be picking up a multimeter today and I plan on testing them today, ...........
To determine where problem is in starter circuit.
1) Check battery voltage between positive and negative battery post (report results). This is to ensure a strong battery voltage.

2) Do same battery voltage test when someone tries to start the car and buzz can be heard (report results). This is to ensure battery voltage is not falling below 10 volts when starter tries to engage, which is a cheap battery load test..

3) Test for voltage at “S” terminal on starter solenoid (see red arrow in picture below) when somebody tries to start engine and buzz can be heard (report results). This is to determine if solenoid is receiving full voltage to solenoid to engage starter.

Depending on what you find in those test, further recommendations can be made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
To determine where problem is in starter circuit.
1) Check battery voltage between positive and negative battery post (report results). This is to ensure a strong battery voltage.

2) Do same battery voltage test when someone tries to start the car and buzz can be heard (report results). This is to ensure battery voltage is not falling below 10 volts when starter tries to engage, which is a cheap battery load test..

3) Test for voltage at “S” terminal on starter solenoid (see red arrow in picture below) when somebody tries to start engine and buzz can be heard (report results). This is to determine if solenoid is receiving full voltage to solenoid to engage starter.

Depending on what you find in those test, further recommendations can be made.
View attachment 309905
Hello all,
Sorry for the delayed response life has been hectic with college and work and such. So I tested the volts on the battery and was getting around 12.6 and it remained at 12.6~ when the car was being cranked. The starter was receiving about 5 volts when I checked it so I removed it and I tested it by giving it power and the gear would not spin but it would pop up when giving power so I deduced that the starter motor was out. However when I tried giving it power once again with a screwdriver to complete the circuit as opposed to a volt meter the gear would spin and pop out. Because of this I tried with the volt meter once again and again the solenoid was working properly but the motor was not. Is this conclusive enough to be my issue?
 

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Hello all,
Sorry for the delayed response life has been hectic with college and work and such. So I tested the volts on the battery and was getting around 12.6 and it remained at 12.6~ when the car was being cranked. The starter was receiving about 5 volts when I checked it so I removed it and I tested it by giving it power and the gear would not spin but it would pop up when giving power so I deduced that the starter motor was out. However when I tried giving it power once again with a screwdriver to complete the circuit as opposed to a volt meter the gear would spin and pop out. Because of this I tried with the volt meter once again and again the solenoid was working properly but the motor was not. Is this conclusive enough to be my issue?
I am confused on several things you wrote, and suspect you may not be using the multi-meter you just purchased properly. You measured "12.6~ when the car was being cranked". To clarify, do you mean while the key was turned to start position....the engine never cranked/rotated did it? When I use a keyboard to write I use the symbol ~ to mean about/approximately. But on a multi-meter the symbol ~ means alternating current and if you had the dial set to that when you were testing or if the readout showed 12.6~, that would be important to know....you should be measuring in DC volts only. Next, you said " starter was receiving about 5 volts when I checked it"......which of the 3 terminals on the starter were you measuring, and how exactly did you test? Your meter set for DC voltage....with all 3 connectors on the starter still attached in place...red meter lead on S terminal below the connected wire....the black meter lead touching any metal part of the engine/starter housing...and the key turned to the start position while measuring ??? If that is how you measured 5V DC at the S terminal, your starter/solenoid are NOT likely your problem. So, please respond to those questions first and retest if you didn't do it that way. Also, test the DC voltage on the large copper terminal with the battery cable feed is attached....no key required for that. You then said "so I removed it and I tested it by giving it power" , from your description I don't think you were testing properly. I assume you mean you took the starter out and removed the two wires attached. When you were testing, you were applying "power". You must use a DC 12.6ish voltage source delivering up to 90 amps,....like a car battery attached to the large starter terminal with a battery sized cable or jumper cable, a second cable of that same size from the battery attached firmly to the starter metal housing.... then with both of those in place, use a 4-6 gauge wire or screw driver to jump from the battery cable copper terminal to the S terminal. Be careful,,It will jump around when you jump it on. You mention somehow using the "voltmeter???" to supply power....that makes no sense.
 

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Like @mothsmoths I'm also confused by some of your comments.
Sorry for the delayed response life has been hectic with college and work and such. So I tested the volts on the battery and was getting around 12.6 and it remained at 12.6~ when the car was being cranked. The starter was receiving about 5 volts ........
If that 5 volts was at “S” terminal with everything hooked up and key turned to start position, that would indicate low voltage to starter solenoid. Which would cause a no crank condition because the solenoid couldn’t be pulled all the way in to close contact between 2 large wire terminals to turn starter motor and extend bendix gear out to engage flywheel teeth. That would also explain no drop in 12.6v at battery post, because of no load from starter.
............. so I removed it and I tested it by giving it power and the gear would not spin but it would pop up when giving power so I deduced that the starter motor was out. However when I tried giving it power once again with a screwdriver to complete the circuit as opposed to a volt meter the gear would spin and pop out. Because of this I tried with the volt meter once again and again the solenoid was working properly but the motor was not. Is this conclusive enough to be my issue?
Confusing, removed what? giving power to what? Gear popped UP :unsure: starter being horizontal not sure how gear would come UP, moving out toward end of starter would make sense. "so I deduced that the starter motor was out" :unsure:, does that mean removed from engine or bad? Giving it power with a screw driver or volt meter :unsure: neither is replacement for heavy wiring!

None of this is conclusive, because low voltage to solenoid could be bad connector, poor battery wire post connections, poor battery ground wire connection to ground or even still a bad battery since there wasn't a load applied to battery when key turned to start position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Hello all,
Sorry for the delayed response life has been hectic with college and work and such. So I tested the volts on the battery and was getting around 12.6 and it remained at 12.6~ when the car was being cranked. The starter was receiving about 5 volts when I checked it so I removed it and I tested it by giving it power and the gear would not spin but it would pop up when giving power so I deduced that the starter motor was out. However when I tried giving it power once again with a screwdriver to complete the circuit as opposed to a volt meter the gear would spin and pop out. Because of this I tried with the volt meter once again and again the solenoid was working properly but the motor was not. Is this conclusive enough to be my issue?
EDIT: could it also be my
I am confused on several things you wrote, and suspect you may not be using the multi-meter you just purchased properly. You measured "12.6~ when the car was being cranked". To clarify, do you mean while the key was turned to start position....the engine never cranked/rotated did it? When I use a keyboard to write I use the symbol ~ to mean about/approximately. But on a multi-meter the symbol ~ means alternating current and if you had the dial set to that when you were testing or if the readout showed 12.6~, that would be important to know....you should be measuring in DC volts only. Next, you said " starter was receiving about 5 volts when I checked it"......which of the 3 terminals on the starter were you measuring, and how exactly did you test? Your meter set for DC voltage....with all 3 connectors on the starter still attached in place...red meter lead on S terminal below the connected wire....the black meter lead touching any metal part of the engine/starter housing...and the key turned to the start position while measuring ??? If that is how you measured 5V DC at the S terminal, your starter/solenoid are NOT likely your problem. So, please respond to those questions first and retest if you didn't do it that way. Also, test the DC voltage on the large copper terminal with the battery cable feed is attached....no key required for that. You then said "so I removed it and I tested it by giving it power" , from your description I don't think you were testing properly. I assume you mean you took the starter out and removed the two wires attached. When you were testing, you were applying "power". You must use a DC 12.6ish voltage source delivering up to 90 amps,....like a car battery attached to the large starter terminal with a battery sized cable or jumper cable, a second cable of that same size from the battery attached firmly to the starter metal housing.... then with both of those in place, use a 4-6 gauge wire or screw driver to jump from the battery cable copper terminal to the S terminal. Be careful,,It will jump around when you jump it on. You mention somehow using the "voltmeter???" to supply power....that makes no sense.
Apologies for the confusion I am relatively new to cars,
I meant 12.6~ as in roughly/ around that number and I meant as in when the key was turned the voltage stayed pretty similar and dropped only about .2 volts when I turned the key on the battery. Yes I was testing the starter as described, I removed the starter and unplugged the wires and such and when I say I have power I pretty much tested the starter by completing the circuit using a circuit tester. Apologies for the confusion I meant to say circuit tester and was using a car battery for power when I was referring to testing the starter when it was out of the car where the gear would pop out but not spin. When I used a screwdriver and cables (still powered by the car battery) to touch the positive cable to the s terminal the gear would spin and pop out which I suspect was the screwdriver was giving it too much power.

EDIT: for reference I am using this circuit tester/voltmeter
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Like @mothsmoths I'm also confused by some of your comments.

If that 5 volts was at “S” terminal with everything hooked up and key turned to start position, that would indicate low voltage to starter solenoid. Which would cause a no crank condition because the solenoid couldn’t be pulled all the way in to close contact between 2 large wire terminals to turn starter motor and extend bendix gear out to engage flywheel teeth. That would also explain no drop in 12.6v at battery post, because of no load from starter.

Confusing, removed what? giving power to what? Gear popped UP :unsure: starter being horizontal not sure how gear would come UP, moving out toward end of starter would make sense. "so I deduced that the starter motor was out" :unsure:, does that mean removed from engine or bad? Giving it power with a screw driver or volt meter :unsure: neither is replacement for heavy wiring!

None of this is conclusive, because low voltage to solenoid could be bad connector, poor battery wire post connections, poor battery ground wire connection to ground or even still a bad battery since there wasn't a load applied to battery when key turned to start position.
Like @mothsmoths I'm also confused by some of your comments.

If that 5 volts was at “S” terminal with everything hooked up and key turned to start position, that would indicate low voltage to starter solenoid. Which would cause a no crank condition because the solenoid couldn’t be pulled all the way in to close contact between 2 large wire terminals to turn starter motor and extend bendix gear out to engage flywheel teeth. That would also explain no drop in 12.6v at battery post, because of no load from starter.

Confusing, removed what? giving power to what? Gear popped UP :unsure: starter being horizontal not sure how gear would come UP, moving out toward end of starter would make sense. "so I deduced that the starter motor was out" :unsure:, does that mean removed from engine or bad? Giving it power with a screw driver or volt meter :unsure: neither is replacement for heavy wiring!

None of this is conclusive, because low voltage to solenoid could be bad connector, poor battery wire post connections, poor battery ground wire connection to ground or even still a bad battery since there wasn't a load applied to battery when key turned to start position.
Thanks for the response, apologies for the confusion I’m relatively new to working on cars and I’m going through much of the process alone so I’m not good with the terminology and speak and such. I will try again to measure the voltage of the starter once it is in the car. I removed the starter from the car because I wanted to test it while it is out the car. I used a circuit tester and car battery to do this and the gear on the starter would lift or “pop out” but it would not turn as it should. From this I deduced that it may be the starter motor. I tested again with a screwdriver and jumper cables (still powered by the battery) touching the positive clamp and the s terminal and the gear was moving up or “popping out” and was turning like it should be. Because of this I’m left in decisive on what the issue could be

EDIT: for reference I am using this as a voltmeter/ circuit tester
 

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Testing starter when removed from car (termed bench test) is a good idea, that I even do on a new starter before installing it. But you can’t use your circuit tester to both pop out the bindex pinion gear and turn the starter motor at same time, it simply can’t carry enough current to do that. When bench testing you need to use jumper cables, with one from battery positive post to the large solenoid terminal that heavy battery red wire normally bolts to and the other black jumper cable from battery negative post to starter housing, I find clamping it to flange where one of mounting bolts normally would be is a good spot. Then you could use your circuit tester to send power to “S” terminal, I suspect it will carry enough current to fully activate starter solenoid to test starter operation. Keep in mind with starter off car and full current delivery the starter it will jump hard when first activated as @mothsmoths eluded too. I usually stand on side of starter when it’s laying on floor or clamp it in a vise, when I activate it to test. See below video to understand full operation of solenoid and starter motor, they’re not always shaped or look completely same but operation in similar in most cases.

I suspect all your problem was from only 5 volts at solenoid “S” terminal when key turned to start, that’s simply not enough to completely activate solenoid (likely buzzing sound) which in turn wouldn't cause starter motor to spin.

 

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[/QUOTE]
@white93gt impressions are the same as I posted which should boost your confidence in where to proceed from here. Your follow-up post answering some of our questions helps to explain what you did, and the results you got in starter/solenoid movements are what I would expect from a good components. CONCLUSIONS: You can't use your Power Probe as a power source to test a starter motor/solenoid because the starter motor draws at least 90 amps and the solenoid likely 8ish amps on average, and your Probe PP319FTC Circuit Tester Manual shows its max output amps is 8, and trips its internal circuit breaker off as it rises beyond that. When you applied those 8 amps on solenoid terminal S, it energized it enough to push the gear partially forward but not enough push a switch inside closed that allows the battery voltage to flow to the starter motor making it spin...exactly what you saw. With the starter off the car and jumper cables directly attached between the car battery and the starter + terminal and the - on the housing, you jumped full battery current through the screw driver to the S terminal. The gear was pushed out fully and the motor spun.....exactly what should happen...STARTER AND SOLENOID BOTH GOOD. As @white93gt said just as I did, the 5V supplied to the S terminal instead of 12.6V as expected is the problem. So, we start with 12.6V at the battery, but we need to trace through the wires and the components on that circuit to figure out where we loose all the voltage down to only 5V at the starter solenoid terminal end. I'll continue on in next post.
 
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