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What kind of turbos I try next

  • Just rebuild my 15G

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • Go full mad with GT28 china choo choo bois

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • Do some metal turning practise and try if I can fit 20T wheels to my 15g:s

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6
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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello all,

I have been contributing to my friends thread earlier there but I desided that my glorius project desperately needs it's own thread.

My build differs a lot of most builds here. I want to go my own way, and always get maximum output for spent money. I like to try things other people are afraid to do, because it is the way to develop knowledge.

So, in 2017 late summer I was relly drunk and I saw a guy at our university campus area with interesting looking car. I asked if he could take me to the passinger seat. He did some launches and I was sold. Next week I was an owner of a -90 (or -91 i dont remember) VR-4 GTO with a color of a ferrari.


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I drove the car home after buying it without any kind of insurance, and managed barely to get home without dying. I did some high-speed runs on the freeway, and exploded my rear tire violently at the moment I maxed out my speedometer. Lesson learned, 15 years old winter tires will not survive speeds above 200kmh.

When I got to our garage I found out that you never should buy your car in a dark. Coating of the pait was ripping off, and the car seemed to smoke a lot. I did not mind as I just wanted a fast car, and it was pretty cheap one.

I tried to get it legally to traffic but I did not pass inspection because the emissions were horrible. So, everything seemed fucked at that moment. Bought a new car and it was straight away PITA.

I did pressure test to all cylinders and found out that one was leaking badly. I pulled the engine and started to disassemble it. Soon my friend with the another GTO in the pick said that I have weird looking pistons. One piston was cracked from piston ring groove. And indeed, someone had put an engine from NA GTO to the car some day and just bolted all the turbo parts to it. At that moment I desided to gather correct parts to fix my car as it should be. I bougth used 4bolt bare block, some used pistons and rods, cylinder heads, and all other needed turbo engine parts. Everything was used, of course, because I was running really out of money.

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With some tricks I survived after this rebuild trough inspection and drove the summer 2018 with stock setup, just with manual boost controller. It was fun untill it was not. I overheated my engine once as my radiator fan stopped working, and after that I suffered from major overheating problems all the time. It was time to take the engine out for a second time. But this time I had a personal financial crisis and I had to deside if I wanted to do like everyone else here - to use expensive and known tuning parts, or just send it and use whatever I get with good price. I desided the last.
 

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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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71 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
So, about the spec list. I gathered some parts for my build hoping to make some serious power:
  • td04hl-15g turbos rebuild with kinugawa parts
  • chinese 1200cc DEFUS injectors
  • walbro 450lph in-tank fuel pump
  • some big used FMIC
  • XTD sintered ebay clutch plate, used RPS flywheel and used South Bend pressure plate
  • AEM gen1 bolt-on ECU with MAP sensor from diesel-mercedes
  • Diy 2,5 downpipes
  • Diy intake piping
  • Chinese BOV from my friend, seems like turbosmart copy
  • Generic oil cooler from local tuning part shop
  • Million other little things
It was time to build everything together then. I had to make my own exhaust manifolds, intake tubing and downpipes to fit my turbos. I draw the flanges with CAD and got them cutted fron 12mm steel with my friend's plasma cutter. If someone wants the cad files, send PM (some adjusting was needed after they were cut but I don't know if it was because my friend's DIY redneck plasma cutter).
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As a tubing material I used 48mm water pipe. Welded all together with MIG. I had not made a single exhaust manifold before this project. Because they are not leaking, I call this success.

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I did all the IC tubing and downpipe tubing also by myself. IC tubing before intercooler is made from 2.25 exhaust pipe because it was just easy to weld. After IC 3 inch aluminium pipe.

Mostly I am suprised about the chinese injectors. How well do they perform. 80 follars for 6 injectors. Crazy. I have emission test device and i would clearly pass euro-3 emission standards at 3000rpm. However no way that it could be done at idle. But I'm sure that it is just because of the crazy size of the injectors.

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As I got my car barely running I had a track day of our car club. I desperately wanted to see my car there, so I went there with pretty unfinished car. I tried to do some engine tuning there, and the car felt faster and faster all the time we got better tune. Until lap 10 I lost all the oil pressure during pull and my engine almost seized. My oil cooler line made in local hydraulic shop failed because they sold me connectors that did not tighten up together correctly. Again I learned my lesson, next time with expensive AN lines.

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Yeah, I took the engine out at the same evening I broke it, and found out that all the rod bearings were destroyed and also one connecting rod was half blue because of the temperature. My forged crank was bended. Small cratches at the cylinder head bearing journals.

I ordered new bearings and got my crank straightened. I guess it is now strain-hardened :-D But this time it was pretty quick to just replace them all as I had almost every part needed already. Everything just back together and never stop the madness.

At the moment the car is running again, I had a temporary licence for it for a week, and I did some mapping with my friends at the garage. I ran maximum of 0.8bars of boost out of it. I was not able to run more, but I think it is because my wastegates open because of the back pressure at the moment. Another gunny thing was that I ran something like 0.6bars with +50 degrees of advance without breaking anything. Blessed e85. I loaded wrong map from my laptop to the ecu where my base advance was set incorrectly. Oops.

And also my turbos are a bit out of order because some dirt entered them. So, i think I will rebuild my turbos or upgrade them. It is now easy to try all kind of cheap and widely used turbos, as my manifolds are with T25 flanges. Maybe T28:s from ebay or something.

Hopefully you at least enjoy reading my thread. This kind of build may not of course satisfy all professional builders with big money at their pockets, but I'm somehow poor student with brain damage (for real). Please forgive me.
 

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Sounds like you got great plans going. Having the know how to pull and redo the motor like that is more than most I would say except for a very few guys here with insane builds. Keep the build going.
 

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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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Discussion Starter #5
Sounds like you got great plans going. Having the know how to pull and redo the motor like that is more than most I would say except for a very few guys here with insane builds. Keep the build going.
Thanks. I think my build will have a few month break as we are not soon allowed to exit from our homes because of the coronavirus. I wish I had my own garage.

Great job, keep up the good work, you've learned a lot in a short time.
Definitely. If I would have bougth a better car, I guess I had not learned this much because I would not have needed to rebuild and repair it this much.
 

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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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Discussion Starter #6
I also got mad with my front subframe last winter. As the car was without it's engine I desided to make my work under the car a bit happier using happy colors.

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Yeah, combined with the body color of the car, it could be in the McDonalds commercial. But now I can clearly see if I'm leaking any fluids.

I just found out that I did not have a pic of the engine bay in the thread. This is from the last summer before the track day I broke everything up.
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I also got some fine looking wheels from 350z. Fitted too high profile wheels to them so my ride heigth is now ridiculoisly high. Good thing is that now I am able to drive trough all the speed bumps like I stole the car. Our roads here are actually closer to rally track than race circuit so maybe it is fine. (As you can see, always on trailer or hood opened. Life of GTO mechanic.)

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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hello from isolated qarantine area! I placed my order about parts I need to rebuild my 15G turbos. Yes, very boring choise, I know. Universitys machine shop is closed because of the virus situation, and because of that I can't machine my housings to fit bigger wheels. But at least I have now 9 blade high flow turbines coming to my build. And at my garage, there are working too many people at the moment, and I would not like to do too big operations there at the moment as we are supposed to stay home. So we will see GT28:s or something else stupid somewhere in the future if I survive corona with my asthma.

But I made some research about possible bigger turbos. I gathered flow maps about all the turbo opinions I had considered.

GT28:s would perform maybe a bit poorly at lower RPM. I could get definitely above 25psi, maybe even bit more at the redline, but I would get max boost from relatively high rpm.
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19T:s
would be better turbos for regular driving, as the compressor map looks a lot wider. Maybe max boost of 22-23psi I quess, and almost to the redline. Full boost at 3000rpm. Also it seems that compared to GT28:s these would give better efficiency with lower boost levels.

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My current 15G setup
seems pretty decent, but compared to 19T:s they are inferior in every way. At 3000RPM i would hit surge at 15psi. I could peak to 22-23 psi, but I think 20psi is practical max with these.

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20T:s or 22T:s,
I could not find flow maps for these bad boys. I think these should be just bigger 19T:s. On the other hand, I have heard that 22T wheel is just some old TD05-18G wheel with a smaller axle hole to fit td04 axle. So maybe it is actually some old design wheel that does not perform that well. Do someone know somehing about this?
 

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Happy colors and McDonald's commercial :ROFLMAO: looking good so far!

BTW, are those the track edition wheels made by RAYS? If so, did you punch out the center bore another 1mm to fit onto the hub? (66.1 vs 67.1)
 

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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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Discussion Starter #9
Happy colors and McDonald's commercial :ROFLMAO: looking good so far!

BTW, are those the track edition wheels made by RAYS? If so, did you punch out the center bore another 1mm to fit onto the hub? (66.1 vs 67.1)
If I remember right, they are RAYS. At least very light and in the inside stands "FORGED". And yes, I had them bored at a local wheel shop to fit them to mitsu hub.
 

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1gen VR4 GTO. 4bolt block with forged crank. 15G hong kong hairdryers and supporting mods.
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Discussion Starter #10
Today I did some progress with my beatiful car. Replaced my power steering pump, and for the first time I get some steering assist under 2000rpm.

I just have a stress at the moment about my injectors. What do you think, can I anyhow get decent idle that passes emission tests with 1200cc ev14 type injectors? I bet I am really close to the deadtime of them but I should really figure out something to get my emissions passed. Maybe drop my fuel pressure to 2 bars or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, I tried taking plug wires off one by one and see what causes my misfiring idle. Some of the plug wires did not make any difference. I began to fear for the first, that I could have some kind of combustion leak.

But then I just set my AEM to really rich on idle. It runs just fine at 1500rmp with 11 afr but if I drop my idle rpm then it begins to miss some cylinders. So, with 1200cc EV14 injectors it seems impossible to get good idle. Maybe I just photoshop my emission measuring document and show it to my inspection engineer :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What does emissions test for in the Netherlands? Do they hook the car up to a sniffer?
Finland =/= Neatherlands

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But yeah, I quess we have the same emission tests because both are EU countries.

My car is registered so that I need to pass euro-2 standard. So the inspection guy will plug some sniffing sensor to my exhaust.

On idle I need to get under 0.5% of CO and max 100ppm HC. And above 2000rpm (usually 3000-4000) i need to have under 0.3% of CO and max 100ppm HC with lambda 1+-0,03.

So if I miss some sparks my HC will radically grow and I won't pass. We have tester machine at our garage, though it is calibrated maybe 10 years ago. But even that tells me that I am far from passing because of HC on idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the map. I am a dumb American after all. hahaha

Can you go beat the piss out of it and bring it into the inspection station red hot?
Haha :)

Yes. And I know one good inspection guy that will mercilessly rev 5000rpm for like 2 minutes until the car passes emissions. But this time I belive that even it is not enough. I could try to cover my cat with some heat insulation so that I could get some extra degrees to burn all the unburned fuel in the cat.

Have you still got a cat converter?
Yes, my registration requires me having cat, if I don't have one I will automatically fail emissions. I have some cheap racing metal cat. But as I have my car inspected, I will instantly drive with cat replaced by just testpipe. I bet the cat won't survive launch control with als.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Repair parts for my lil spooly boys arrived:

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I ordered the cheapest 9-blade turbine wheel and billet compressor wheels I could find. Sold as unbranded. However the sender adress for turbine wheel was KAMAK and for compressor wheels Kinugawa. Not too bad :)

I was still surpriced that I was able to run 0.8 bars of boost without any problems with compressor wheels damaged this bad.

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But on the other hand I could not get any bigger boost than 0.8bar with damaged ones, but I believe it is just because the air flow in the turbo will be ruined because of the rough blade surface. We will see if I am able to get some +20psi from these really soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wohoo yeaa yibii I got my lil hiroshima hairdryers to give some pressure again!

And there is again a stupid story to tell :D I quess my brain damage forces me to always fuck things up in very inventive way. So, I just bolted the repaired turbos to manifolds without any unneccessary balancing (at least the part seller told that they should be pre-balanced). I was worried that my nasty flex-pipe intake tubing was the source of the foregin objects that entered my turbos and I did not wan't to reuse it. But as I have runned out of money I did not want to buy expensive silicone tubing and because I am lazy I didin't want to do all the fabrication. So I just bougth some cheap foam air filters that were supposed to be used in some dirt bikes. Install was very easy, and I was really happy.

I did some test drive and I could not get even -2psi out of my engine at big rpm. It felt like moped. What a surprice that air filters that were meant for some 50hp engine would restrict :D But as I unbolted them and throw them to the garbage I found that my rear turbo had sucked and eaten half of the foam filter. I could not see any damage on the wheel, so I guess it is okay.

But the sad thing is that now I am hearing a sligth whining sound like a police siren when accelerating. Very very sligth. I think another turbo is out of balance or something. Don't know if I was just fooled by ebay seller that claimed the parts to be pre-balanced or did I already broke it.

But still, now I am gonna take max possible boost out of it. Let's see what we are going to break next.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Turbos stopped that annoying and horrible sound. I guess new parts just needed some time to settle :D
 
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