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Another Engine Swap - LS style

370K views 4K replies 108 participants last post by  familyMAN 
#1 · (Edited)
Awwww shit. This is happening:eek:rly3:

Wanted a turbo v8 project. Thought about other cars, but tough to find an inexpensive ride that looks as good as a 3S and I don't have the space to have two toys, so swapping Grean Bean. As most of you have seen, been selling off a lot of parts which was needed to fund project and clear space.

General plan...Street/Strip/Handling....7-800whp street tune and 900-1000whp on kill for track. Building my own chromoly subrame with fully adjustable control arms. Using foxbody spindles (tons of brake options). Garrett (meat missile) is building me a chromoly rear subframe, adjustable control arms and chromoly adjustable trailing arm.

Going to use a 5.3 truck engine and a built to the hilt powerglide. Gearing of a glide is basically just 2nd and 3rd of a 3 speed trans (1.80:1,1:1). Will have plenty of power and a billet converter matched for combo so 1st isn't even needed.

Planning to use 3.31 ratio 6 sp diff, but have a 3.56 5 sp also. Eventually will get 27" street tires and 28" slicks but that's last on the list. Plenty of gear (28" and 3.31 at 7500 rpm is 105mph in 1st and 189mph in 2nd)

Already have a stock iron longblock and aluminum long block with a texas speed cam, dual valve springs and pushrods. I bought 210lb bosch injectors, fancy fuel rails and injector adapters and have those mounted in an LS6 manifold (need to keep the engine low since I won't be cutting a hole in the hood).

Ironblock and mock up trans

Truck 5.3 aluminum block and I installed corvette waterpump, corvette damper and a fancy alt relocation


Engine management is ms3Pro-evo with LS harness. I stripped everything not needed from 3S harness. 17lbs worth. MS3Pro EVO GM LS 24x Plug and Play Custom Harness Package This has a built in 4 bar sensor. I have two hall effect sensors for front and rear wheel speed for traction control. Also ordered a second AEM trimpot so I'll have a dial for allowed slip % between rear and front wheels. Can dial for wet conditions or rolling burnouts[emoji3] Flex fuel of course and many more goodies.

Had the engine where I wanted it but decided, if I'm cutting, keep cutting. Going to recess the engine back another 6". Will be nearly front mid-engine. Found a trick hot-rodders use....steel wheelbarrow tub. $20. Perfect shape and angles deeper at bottom for bellhousing. More to come on that. It's a bit to wide at bottom, so I have to cut a pie piece out and pull the bottom in so it fits between the stock subframe mounting studs.

Aluminum engine may get rods and pistons. Undecided. Stock bottom end 5.3 have gone 7.6x in a 2950lb mustang, so they hold a ton of power, but any hiccup and you have a rod shooting through the block. The iron blocks are dirt cheap at $550 for a whole long block ready to drop in with an ecu even. So most just run them and swap them if they break. Aluminum saves 110lbs and should make my car lighter than with 4cyl auto, but you pay a premium, so I don't want to put a hole in it.

80mm s400 style turbo from VSracing. $835 christmas sale. Others have dynoed 1000whp thru an auto with this turbo and a 5.3. I'm going no intercooler though. Pump gas on street and low boost. E85 for high boost and will pre-turbo spray nitrous for some cooling [emoji14]

Lots more to cut. Lot of little things. (brake lines, line lock, dropping my seat lower, paint engine bay?, etc). Lots of fab and welding. Engine build(s). But the plan is in motion. Figured I would share.



See you at the shootout. (and no it won't count for 3S records.)



Flame suit ready.....:moon2:
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Mockup engine and mock up trans in but now it's moving back 5-6".


Powerglide vs tcase.


w4a33 awd auto is 175lbs plus 38lb tcase, plus 35lb in front axles. Total 248lbs. Glide 99lbs. 149 saved. Plus shorter stock driveshaft. Plus FMIC ditched at 35lbs. Plus will be a lighter subframe.

Engine weight is going to be similar with the aluminum block. Maybe 50-75lb difference longblock to long block. The weight is dramatically moving back. I will corner weigh it when finished.
 
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#3 ·
awh, but I liked your 4G set up :(

so its basically gonna be 4wd? you can switch where you want the power? that's fucking cool. I'll be excited to see what you make of this!
 
#4 ·
Nah, rwd only. Lots of options to add AWD/4WD if I wanted, but decided I didn't want the complexity and weight. I can always add it later if I want another fab project since you can add all kinds of transfer case options to a glide.

Going to see how much a stock 3S diff can hold. If/When I blow both of them, I'll fab in a ford 8.8 independent rear setup. Cheap, tons of LSD options, and with DSS axles, they hold a ton of power.

Plenty of people still pushing the 4Gswaps. I wanted a new challenge, engine platform to learn and tuning platform to learn.
 
#6 ·
Sawzall has been putting in overtime. Needed room to move the trans and engine up. (Also a good pic to show, all the sound deadener still in my car. Also still have the carpet insulation. All the deadener is on firewall and below rear seats too.


Probably the shifter I will use. Trans brake button on bottom will send signal to ecu to trigger 2-step and trans brake, button on top to bump interrupt the brake and bump the car in to beams.


Also, excited for weight distribution. Going to fit some beefier tires up front for street and autocross. Should be fun!!

Random pic of all the wiring I removed. That's engine harness, MFI (f u!) and power windows. Picked up manual regulators. My wires were breaking in door anyway and it was very satisfying to remove the wires.
 
#9 ·
You know I'm messing with you dude. Good luck on the build, looks awesome.

I do see through your plan though, keep swapping engines into your car so you can be #1 on all the quicklists ... 4G swap quicklist, LS swap quicklist, hmm maybe SR swap quicklist, v-twin swap quicklist? :lol3:
 
#10 ·
I wanna see someone rotary swap a 3s. [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
i have been debating do that myself...lol

i've owned 14 Rx7's over the years and I have A LOT of parts to make this happen. But every time i think about it. I always end up thinking its better to use the 1st gen Vr4 drive train in a 2nd Gen Rx7. but with a Rotary still...
 
#11 ·
If I could afford a 3 or 4 rotor I would. Sound amazing. But then it won't get me down the street and back. Lol
 
#14 ·


Holy crap this is nice!!! $1750 with harness. And more capable than an AEM v2.

I really need to start recording these box openings for YouTube content but too excited to see it. This thread is now real time. I am in parking lot of USPS. Lol
 
#15 ·
Definitely similar to how I would do it AKA Matt Sloppy Mechanics style lol. Power glide is was better for the track and cheaper but for more street use I would do a 4L80e, shift kit, and billet converter. I’d try out HP Tuners and then MS3. Mega squirt just looks a little intimidating but it’s all about just learning the software.

It will definitely be a interesting fab and problem solving build even with cookie cutter LS stuff figured out. I would just run Ann iron block 4.8 or 5.3, keep the torque below 750RWTQ if you want the stock rods to last too long, and run it. Or give it all the boost and see how many track passes it lasts.

With garage space and time I would definitely be doing a turbo 4.8/5.3 swap. Matt already made over 1000RWTQ on a stock bottom end 6.0 with a China VSRacing S480 in a Colorado truck. Not gonna last at that level but he did a 500RWHP budget sloppy build recently. Crazy how cheap and inexpensive you can go with these motors. AY better engineered than ours.
 
#17 · (Edited)
With garage space and time I would definitely be doing a turbo 4.8/5.3 swap. Matt already made over 1000RWTQ on a stock bottom end 6.0 with a China VSRacing S480 in a Colorado truck. Not gonna last at that level but he did a 500RWHP budget sloppy build recently. Crazy how cheap and inexpensive you can go with these motors. AY better engineered than ours.

I watch his vids. Definitely good info and turned me on to the turbo and injectors. Some stuff he does is just silly. Quite a few local racers do stock bottom end 5.3's. The Streetcar Takeover street class winner in bowling green 2 years ago was a local foxbody with SBE 5.3. Ran mid-high 8's all day.

I like how all the gaskets are orings on the LSs. Everything from intake to oil pan is a runner oring. Pretty cool.

The aluminum engine I have already has head studs, LS9 gaskets and gapped rings. Was going to run it, but pulled the oil cooler block off and found a bunch of steel media blast balls so whole engine is coming apart.

You should do a swap in your spare time! If you use stock ECM and 4l80e it can be a super cheap swap. Once my subframe is done, I can replicate it for others if they want, but it will be setup for a recessed firewall. Doubt many will want to do that. Or pay the $$$$ for the subframe/control arms. So really not planning on anyone else doing it. Sooooo much fabbing.
 
#16 · (Edited)
My powerglide will be rated for 1800 HP and 2 year warranty on hard parts. Aftermarket SFI case so no scattershield needed. And the converter is spec'd to the cam, engine size, turbo, car weight, rpm limit I gave them, and the mandate that it has to flash from a roll on the street. Converter is setup for 1200HP crank.

It is not cheap but it will hold. Car should end up near 3000lbs with me in it, full interior. A 2.x:1 first gear would be useless on street (or track because of IRS). 4l80e is cheap, but big and heavy. I did a lot of research, talked to a lot of racers, street racers and made calls to trans shops. I also like the full manual valvebody. No electronics other than trans brake. 4l80e would be nice for OD but that and cost is only advantage for what I want to do.

If all goes as planned, it should be pretty rowdy on the street. If I end up long road tripping it a lot (probably not a lot), I can add a gear vendors overdrive unit which actually makes both 1st and 2nd have an overdrive. And they are virtually limitless on HP rating.
 
#19 ·
Yep! I have a spare set of axles and extra diff. It will be fine on the street since it won't hook tq. Curious what it will hold on the track! Lol

Plan on 8.8 IRS diff once I burn through the 3S diffs. They may surprise us though. I'm curious. I'm probably not going to invest any money into an LSD or axles though and move to 8.8 instead.
 
#20 ·
I think you could safely compare to the z-car guys with the R180, as it's a nearly identical size and design. The VCU helps, as with the R180, the spiders are the weak link.

I've thought about the Montero IFS rear, but I'm not sure they're offered with taller gear choices, and haven't been serious enough about it to investigate.
 
#21 ·
I imagine the viscous lsd won't like the amount of tq it's going to try to manage. I still think street and autocross will be fine. It may surprise us at track too! (Hopeful :)) I'll try to be easy on the launch and creep into it the aggressiveness. Trans brake is going to be harsher than footbrake but will be fun.

I won't put any money or effort into Montero rear. Too much of a gamble when ford 8.8 IRS holds and is cheap. There are also 9" and 9.75" IRS options for big money. I don't want solid axle because I don't want a mini tub and room for diff. I like my flat panel in back now that garrett cut out the tire hump.

A few 4g DSMs did solid rear with their awd setups. Weight savings vs 3S diff and IRS. Improving anti squat can help awd big time too, but I'm dead set on keeping IRS.


Edit: 3S body swap on a lowered 4wd Montero could be cool idea for someone!!
 
#23 · (Edited)
I doubt I'll finish first. A lot to do and I've been sick a lot this winter. Flu took me down twice now. And also likely taking an offer at a new company.

So many projects I am doing with this too. Like a side exit on a valve so I don't have to swap exhausts. Line lock for big burnouts :D metric and standard brake fittings and new lines will be fun.
 
#24 ·
New Harness laid out on kitchen floor.


Soooo nice. I'm not used to this! Once I get it up and running and see if I can find fault with ms3pro; if it's all good, I'm going to talk to them about a PNP for 3000. The features are on par with infinity, haltech, and proefi but priced less than AEM v2. Has built in 4 bar map sensor too. Could be a great option for 3Sers.

Matt at DIYAutoTune was great to work with. He even told me what I/O to use for the features I told him I'm going to set up.
 
#45 ·
That would be really sweet. I have an AEM v2 on the shelf, thought about an Infinity, and if there was more MS support I would definitely give it a shot. Coming up with the time to figure it all out could take me awhile.

You know, I was contemplating leaving the 3s platform for your stated reasons of switching to LS. I was going to go the Camaro route actually but I cannot afford to buy a car, and then modify it as I would get peanuts for my car.

I really hope its a easy swap, and you come out with a cost effective kit so a guy like myself could buy a ls and drop it in. Man it would be nice to just have a good motor with tons of support that you can beat the living shit out of, and not worry about spinning a bearing or even worry about finding a stupid little bearing (inputshaft bearing) without paying a fortune for. This 3s platform is getting super annoying. I dunno, I just see my buddies drop 3k for a billet crank stroker kit meanwhile our BC stroker kit is 5k + with 2 less cylinders to worry about perfect example lol.... But yah I wish I could be there and help you out to speed this up cause I'm super excited for you heheheheh.....
You should put your car back together, leave it at 700AWHP, have fun with it, and start saving up to get into another platform to go fast. These cars are a huge money pit to make reliable and big power. The results are cool no doubt, but not worth it imo. Very few are using them for racing events and things are bound to break. I think on a few of us actually have the coin to keep up with that. A decade ago it was more exciting.
 
#25 ·


Here you go Ryan:)
 
#26 ·
Damn dude this is amazing, I would love to do this. But feel as if I don't have the skill to do so.
 
#27 ·
Thanks but I may not either. [emoji23] "in for partout" [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
 
#28 ·


I pulled mock up back out last weekend to cut some more firewall. My 5 year old was "snuggling" with glide. Fell asleep 2 mins later. This is a family effort. He has been bugging me for a long time to do wheelies. Hopefully diff can hold. 13 year old is excited to do Vlogs. Girls are ready for races. Wife, wants me to finish the basement and build a garage so she can have a spot again. ?
 
#29 ·
I added a 3rd car to my garage and told my wife that she wouldn't need to worry about parking outside any more. She's currently outside and has been for weeks lmfao. We find new ways to take up the extra space we gain. 2 money jobs taking 2 spots. My car up in the air waiting for wider wheels to come back taking up the 3rd. My truck is outside currently without a trans. It goes in next and I have 3-4 more money jobs lined up waiting to come in. She'll be outside for a good while yet.

Back on track, cool build especially with the ms. My foxbody friend is gonna try ms. He's been trying to get me to convert to be the guinea pig before he gets his running.

Was hp tuners ever a consideration when you were researching? I would figure that to be a potential cost savings to do vs an aftermarket ecu.

Keep the progress coming. This interests me way more than the less is more approach you previously did.

Jeff
 
#30 ·
mind me asking how much you have into this?
 
#33 ·
Yeah, mdoe8 on this forum was working on it for about 4 years. Eventually did a start up video but never drove it. Haven't seen anything in a long time. I messaged him but no response.
 
#37 ·
Thanks for the kind words guys. This build will get finished. You guys know that!

I will miss AWD, and a lot of back and forth with myself. Where I'm setting the engine, a trailblazer SS drivetrain WILL sit right. But the weight penalty is huge, complexity ramps up even higher, and then how much will I spend on trans, tcase, diff and axles to keep them from exploding at 8-1000wtq.

RWD will make for an exciting drive on the street with less HP. I don't have anyone or anyplace to competitively mexico race so rolling burnouts should add to the giggle factor.

I've done a lot of research and have a solid plan (I think), but certainly open to input and discussion. That's why I posted instead of waiting for the first burnout vid. Figure we can all learn along the way.

The control arm and subframe design is pretty cool IMO. Making it highly adjustable. Even allowing of spacing the control arms fore and aft for big changes in caster. Then double adjusters on each arm so final tuning can be done on the rack without unbolting the heim. Not sure why almost no one does it like this. I actually did more research on drift car builds than anything else. Top level guys have highly engineered setups and trick parts.

If I wasn't sitting in the hot tub with the flu (again), I'd be posting some progress pics. Early Jan to today have not been myself so severely affecting my progress.
 
#38 ·
Are you going to tune this motor on the engine dyno.? That's another cool thing about ls motors.
 
#40 ·
A setup like this would do best getting tuned at the drag strip. You have no idea how the engine will be loaded until it's in the chassis driving due to the torque converter and turbo. It's also a lot of work to get the tune solid during shifts when the engine rpm gets pulled down under wot.
 
#39 ·
So, what you're saying is I should build a 4gswap to make up for you LSing the original 4gswap, right? [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#41 · (Edited)
So, what you're saying is I should build a 4gswap to make up for you LSing the original 4gswap, right? [emoji16]


Yes that sounds correct :). Still a firm believer in benefits of 4g. A 4g will hold 1400awhp with stock crank and block. A v8 LS typically needs aftermarket on both. Now if going for 1600hp+, than v8 makes a lot of sense since aftermarket block is needed either way. 4g is also a very cost effective 6-800hp option that won't have you listening for rod knock. Plus, Manual or auto, the DSM vendors keep coming up with better parts (because they race;))

I just can't leave well enough alone.

Stock bottom end 5.3 stuff is pretty impressive though. Tune has to be good and bigger the turbo the better.

Brian's 3.4 6g build is badass but I can't stomach the cost of the billet crank, the lead time to get one, and the replacement cost and leadtime when the inevitable happens. I'm an auto fan, so not sure how the w4a33 will hold up to that tq on the street on a regular basis. Thinking you can spend all the money upfront and have no issues is one of the fallacies of the platform. Or then scared to beat on it so good parts and mediocre results. That's just my opinion and path though, which isn't for everyone.
 
#43 ·
You know, I was contemplating leaving the 3s platform for your stated reasons of switching to LS. I was going to go the Camaro route actually but I cannot afford to buy a car, and then modify it as I would get peanuts for my car.

I really hope its a easy swap, and you come out with a cost effective kit so a guy like myself could buy a ls and drop it in. Man it would be nice to just have a good motor with tons of support that you can beat the living shit out of, and not worry about spinning a bearing or even worry about finding a stupid little bearing (inputshaft bearing) without paying a fortune for. This 3s platform is getting super annoying. I dunno, I just see my buddies drop 3k for a billet crank stroker kit meanwhile our BC stroker kit is 5k + with 2 less cylinders to worry about perfect example lol.... But yah I wish I could be there and help you out to speed this up cause I'm super excited for you heheheheh.....
 
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