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Flasher
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9,650 Posts
Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Do you have headlift fix? What head gaskets?
No headlift fix, standard oem MLS head gaskets and head bolts. If it was the head lift, would I see the coolant blowing out the exhaust or down the motor or something?
 

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One fix at a time
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No headlift fix, standard oem MLS head gaskets and head bolts. If it was the head lift, would I see the coolant blowing out the exhaust or down the motor or something?
No it just breaches the head gasket briefly and seals back up.It will get worse and worse until you can barely get into boost because it will push coolant. I lifted the heads at 22 psi on TD04s and E-85 but that’s was due to some MAF scaling issues that advanced my timing from 21 to 25 degrees. I put in new head gaskets and everything is sealed back up again.

Wait until the car is warm, mark your overflow bottle, go do a pull, and check to see if it’s fuller. If it is you’re lifting the heads. Your upper radiator hose will be hard as well(pressurized).
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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8,406 Posts

Might as well continue using this thread.

Those runs are 26-28ish psi (relying on glancing at the gauge), first 3 pulls out of the garage. Probably a 50/50 mix of E85 and 93.

Looks like plenty of room for improvement.
But that 15 minute trip (WOT half a dozen gears worth) pushed about 3/4 gallon of coolant out the overflow tank, so I'm not yet sure what to do about that.

No other issues so far.

How much boost can these big 16gs push anyway?
You can get them into the mid30’s for sure.

As others have said, sounds like you have a head gasket breach.

How much timing are you running at 4-5k, 5-6k, 6-7k and 7k+?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Flasher
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9,650 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
You can get them into the mid30’s for sure.

As others have said, sounds like you have a head gasket breach.

How much timing are you running at 4-5k, 5-6k, 6-7k and 7k+?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's been so long since I looked at the tune I don't remember. I literally got this thing together and drove it to record those runs to see where it was at. I'll get a look at the map later but I'm pretty sure it's about the same as stock in that range.

Is the idea to pull timing in that range to prevent the blowby into the coolant passage? Or just to overall reduce power/cylinder pressure until I get the fix done?

Also, is Ray or anyone else still servicing these heads?
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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It's been so long since I looked at the tune I don't remember. I literally got this thing together and drove it to record those runs to see where it was at. I'll get a look at the map later but I'm pretty sure it's about the same as stock in that range.

Is the idea to pull timing in that range to prevent the blowby into the coolant passage? Or just to overall reduce power/cylinder pressure until I get the fix done?

Also, is Ray or anyone else still servicing these heads?
Short answer, reduce timing at peak tq (boost hit) to not blow shit up.

If you are pushing coolant, you need to pull the heads, likely need a resurface and will need new gaskets. Continuing to run it will do more damage.

Don Kakascik does engine and heads and will pin the heads if you want.
 

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Registered
1991 VR4
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790 Posts
So is that some kind of virtual dyno? And is it wheel hp or crank?
Virtual dyno is a free program you can download. You input your vehicle specs and upload a log and it calculates vehicle HP. How accurate it is depends on how good the data you put in is mostly.
 

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SDSU Alumnus
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3,194 Posts
When you say, "the same as stock," were you running the same map/numbers as your 19T's, or did you actually retune beforehand? If the same or even "stock", then it is likely too much.

Also, is your boost logging not set up yet? That will help tremendously aside from looking at the curves and load figures. In the meantime, I would turn it down and reasses/work your way back up more safely.

-sent from my Galaxy Note 9
 

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Flasher
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9,650 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
287241


There's the timing map. Higher than I remember.

I gotcha on the damage, I saw the pictures of melted heads in the headlift fix thread. I want to be sure the combustion getting into the coolant is what is actually happening, and I also want to drive the car for a bit before another teardown (it's been almost 2 years since I last drove it).

If it is blowby into the coolant, I'll drop the power down until it's not an issue until I'm ready to down the car for a few weeks.
 

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Flasher
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9,650 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
When you say, "the same as stock," were you running the same map/numbers as your 19T's, or did you actually retune beforehand? If the same or even "stock", then it is likely too much.

Also, is your boost logging not set up yet? That will help tremendously aside from looking at the curves and load figures. In the meantime, I would turn it down and reasses/work your way back up more safely.

-sent from my Galaxy Note 9
I never got boost logging setup (I bought the wrong MAP sensor and never bothered with it again). Was considering doing that next, but it hasn't been a high priority. Turning it down is definitely the next step, I didn't even know what the boost would be at when I recorded those (MBC), now I know :p
 

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Flasher
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9,650 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
So is that some kind of virtual dyno? And is it wheel hp or crank?
Yeah thats VD. It's supposed to represent WHP, and is supposedly pretty accurate. I just use it as a tool. For example, I know on 19T's I was making ~450whp with VD on Dynojet.

I forgot to mention, GD were those runs fun, fastest car I've been in now. :D (I also make it a point to NOT get in cars that are faster than mine, ignorance is bliss)
 

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Flasher
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9,650 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
My only other thought on the coolant thing is that it could be overheating and boiling out. Temps on 19T's were never where I liked them (really an issue since adding the FMIC). Add smaller fans (Mitsumoto fan shroud) and a bigger/hotter turbo closer to the radiator. Time will tell.
 

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885 Posts
Virtual dyno is a free program you can download. You input your vehicle specs and upload a log and it calculates vehicle HP. How accurate it is depends on how good the data you put in is mostly.
Ah, My way is go to the track....then make excuses because the 60' sucks lol.

Yeah thats VD. It's supposed to represent WHP, and is supposedly pretty accurate. I just use it as a tool. For example, I know on 19T's I was making ~450whp with VD on Dynojet.

I forgot to mention, GD were those runs fun, fastest car I've been in now. :D (I also make it a point to NOT get in cars that are faster than mine, ignorance is bliss)
So what turbos are you on? the 19t or 16g? I cant wait to turn up the boost on my car and drive it for the first time. Ill probably just want more though lol.
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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8,406 Posts
virtual dyno works great but road has to be flat and smooth. bad data is bad results.
 

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One fix at a time
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7,788 Posts
View attachment 287241

There's the timing map. Higher than I remember.

I gotcha on the damage, I saw the pictures of melted heads in the headlift fix thread. I want to be sure the combustion getting into the coolant is what is actually happening, and I also want to drive the car for a bit before another teardown (it's been almost 2 years since I last drove it).

If it is blowby into the coolant, I'll drop the power down until it's not an issue until I'm ready to down the car for a few weeks.
It looks like you smoothed out the 2-3k high load area by adding more timing; that's probably the highway cruising 5th/6th area and passing without downshifting. Also, the stock timing map only goes to 21 degrees not 23 like you have. Regardless, the timing at peak torque and above is way too high. I'd say that's why you pushed coolant. Dial it back and you should be ok.
 

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SDSU Alumnus
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3,194 Posts
Speaking of which... what are the SAE corrected numbers? NY looks to be pretty chilly lol

-sent from my Galaxy Note 9
 

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1994 Mit 3000gt VR4 6spd
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1,290 Posts
Ray still does the headlift fix or you can send straight to merkel racing in New york. They originated the fix and are an excellent machine shop. The 16g's push like dr750's if timing isn't under control.

I pm'd you OP.
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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8,406 Posts
Oops, missed that he posted a timing map. I'd take a lot out everywhere for 16gs. I'd be around 8-10* at peak tq. 13-15* up top depending on how the car reacts and how much boost. Run more boost, less timing, more ethanol. You'll make a ton of power. If you run out of turbo and going max effort, then make dyno pulls, virtual dyno or track passes, adding timing above 6k to see if it picks up power or mph. Above 30psi, I'd start at 8* and 13* up top and go from there.

Point of reference, MBT on a single turbo car I tuned was ~13* up top. More timing picked up very little HP. Td05's may need a bit more to reach MBT, but I wouldn't start there when you have so much boost left on the table.

12* was about MBT up top on my LS at 20psi. I run 9* at peak tq.

A lot of 4G cars are 10-13* up top.

all ethanol examples

and give or take. some cars may want more fuel and can take more timing. Some less and less. etc. c16 cars and will be different

td04 cars will also be different
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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8,406 Posts
Ray still does the headlift fix or you can send straight to merkel racing in New york. They originated the fix and are an excellent machine shop. The 16g's push like dr750's if timing isn't under control.

I pm'd you OP.
Or so does donnie
 
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