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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure I'm probably the enemy being that I drive a Mustang, but I would really appreciate any input you guys can give. I have a 95 Mustang GT, and want to know if it would be able to take my uncle's 91 Stealth R/T TT. Both cars have the 5 speed manual trans.

The Stealth has 120,000 miles on it, but has just had the entire top end rebuilt. It was built to the original specifications as far as I know. What I need to know is first what kind of HP did the 91 Stealth have? Second, what kind of performance did it post (0-60, 1/4 mile, etc)? Also, do you think I could take him with my "lowly" GT (pushing probably about 250 crank hp)?

By the way my uncle seems to think that he can run right with my dad's 2000 Carrera 4s with K&N, and B&B Tri-flo complete exhaust (it's a 6 speed).
 

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Well, you don't have much of a chance. Really. stock was 300 and with a K&N and a good exhaust and some tricks he might. I am not too far from stock and posted a 13.5 Not the best run for me, but still I don't think a Stang will do it unless it has some tricks. as far as the Carrera, I dunno. I have taken a couple new boxsters and one 911/944 Turbo ( don't remember which one) so I don't think it too impressive (the runs not the Carrera.) most 0-60 run low 5 high 4. 60' in under 2 if you are decent. good luck and you might go to http://www.Stangnet.com if you want to hear more on this subject. I posted under the same user name there this same type question.

Ryan
 

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i have had 2 91 stealths, a r/t and now a r/t tt. my girlfriend has a 95 gt with K&N and complete exh. i would beat her with the r/t non turbo, we had the same power but i would jump on her betwen shifts (she has an auto) as far as the tt, i walk away from her every time, she wont race me anymore! my r/t tt came stock w/300hp. 0-60 ~ 5 sec. the moral of the story... unless you have a supercharger or a shot of nitrous, dont mess with the stealth tt
 

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Personally, I don't think you have any kind of chance against a TT.. I have a non-turbo, and I've beaten *plenty* of rustang GT's... I don't know how, but I have..

-LDG
93 Stealth ES
 

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Hey, well, your uncle has 300HP stock, and 13.5 Quater mile, if he is brave enough to launch at 6000RPMs. Because of the All Wheel Drive, he would beat you off the line, and because of the added HP, you would not be able to catch up. Also Mods on Turbo Cars, easily add up to a lot of extra HP. In Summary stock Stealth TTs have the power of a Cobra. the 3000 also handles better in any weather on any roads.

Well, anyways my point is that You should not race him. His car is faster and handles better. In a cobra it is a more even race. But because of the Launch, the Stealth would win in any street race.

Your uncle is right the Stealth is a Super Class car, so it does Run against cars like Porche. This Year, the 3000GT Ranked 10 in the Worlds Fastest Production cars. The Cobra Ranked 11.

Tuan Luu
1994 3000GT 222HP
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Well to start things off, 3000 GT SL's (and I am guessing non-turbo Stealth's) have been NO PROBLEM for my Stang. I have walked on at least a half dozen of them on the highway. Yes I am sure they were racing because as soon as I would start to lift they would suck me up, but once that go pedal went back to the floor, I was pulling them hard.

Second, you have to remember this Stealth has 120,000 miles on it. He let me drive it the other day, and it didn't seem to pull as hard as my Mustang.

Third, my Mustang isn't quite stock. I have a K&N air filter, Cobra upper/lower intake, Flowmaster cat-back exhaust, 3.55 rear gears (versus the 2.73's that came stock on the 95), 9 MM plug wires, 14 deg of timing, a Pro 5.0 short throw shifter (makes powershifting a breeze), and BBK upper/lower rear control arms (to help me hook off the line). I have 9" wide Cobra R wheels with 255 rear tires (going to go back to the 285s here soon). Oh, and the Full length headers and H-pipe, Centerforce clutch, and Aluminum Driveshaft in my garage swill go on the car within the next week or so.

I am sure with this setup I should be able to turn near 14.1 in the 1/4 (Have seen Mustangs with less mods turn similar times).

Fourth, you have to remember that with a race this close DRIVER is a main issue. I know that between the SLOPPY linkage shifter in those Stealth's and the fact that my Uncle doesn't seem to be anywhere near professional with a stick I should be able to at least pull him a little bit.

I not only have the V8 torque to pull me off the line, but also don't have to wait for any turbos to kick in. You have to remember that each time he shifts, unless it is quick there is going to be a bit of a turbo lag.

13.5 is DAMN good time, but it was also probably turned by a professional driver that was most likely POWERSHIFTING that car.

Onto the Porsche issue, I don't think he has a prayer. The new Carrera 4 with a 6 speed manual runs 13.8 from the factory (with a professional driver). Between the K&N setup, and the B&B Tri flo exhaust it was quoted at giving him a little over 30 added horsepower which would put him at 324 or so HP. All this added to the fact that both myself and my father can shift that car at about 2 times the rate my uncle can shift his R/T (with 120k miles).

All in all we'll see what happens. When we do, I'll either be on here with my tail between my legs, or telling you guys all how wrong you were. Either way, I can't wait to find out.
 

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You make some intersting points. You did not mention your mods before, so how could we fairly respond? On the basis of make alone? I think your mods give you quite a bit of power, but will also exaggerate your wheelspin, which the stealth has none. Lag is over rated in these cars by people who have never driven one. As far as expert drivers setting the published times, sure. But not for the times Ford, Corvette or anyone else publish? Give me a break! Can you be sure you or your dad are any more "expert" than your uncle? Why, because like most uncles he wears Hawaiian shorts and black socks with sandals in the summer?

I expect your car to easily kill a non turbo 3si, but I give a slight advantage to the turbo models against you. The Porsche however, I think would probably edge out the 3si (unless he also has some mods you haven't told us about). Note to previous poster, the Carrerra 4 is a performance car NOT like a boxster (those things are glorified Miatas, not even worth racing). BTW, got any sisters who want to race? Just kidding guy, I had a mildly done 88 cobra gt for about 7yrs myself lots of fun.But don't forget, you're on our turf here, so don't expect us to bow down to you or your daddy.

[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited December 06, 1999).]
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Diablo,

I like your style. I appreciate your looking at things logically, and with a level head.

What I don't appreciate is anyone who looks at things in terms of "I drive one so they must be the best."

I am always the first to admit when I am beat, but I think that in this case I am not.

The reason I say that my dad, and myself can shift quicker than my uncle is that I have seen my uncle drive. He drove my Mustang before I bought it, and I have seen him try to shift that Stealth, he just doesn't seem to have the coordination when it comes to driving a 5 speed that I feel is necessary to make a turbo car run to its full potential.

Also, when he first bought the thing, I was like "crap, his car's faster" (I am terribly competitive). When I drove it however, I wasn't terribly impressed. I would like to think that I am getting pretty good at judging somewhat the difference in performance between two cars by driving them. I have driven all sorts of cars (97 Porsche TT, 98 Corvette, 98 Mustang Cobra, 99 Trans Am, 99 Z28, his Stealth, etc.)

I still think that the majority of Stealth, and 3000 GT TT's would kill my stang, but his doesn't feel any stronger than mine.

I think that all things considered - his 3800 lb weight, versus my 3400 lb weight. his 300 hp, to my 260 or so (rough estimate considering my mods) - it should be pretty close to begin with.

You throw in there the fact that I KNOW without a doubt that I could outshift the holy (*&% out of him with my short throw, and I think I can take him.

Thanks again for everyone's time, and patience with this lowly Ford boy.

Hope to find out soon whether I am full of puckey, or truly correct.
 

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You guys have to realize that our cars don't feel like rockets because once we hit about 2500 RPM, our torque more or less, stays CONSTANT up to about 6500. Our torque curves are more like plateaus. On the 5.0 stangs, they've got hugely different torque curves and consequently, feel completely different. Their curves are more like steap peak mountains. I often ride in my roommate's 1991 vette 6-speed and feel like the car is in a totally faster league. The truth being, it's not all that much faster, if it's faster at all. The drag races a couple of weekends ago shocked the both of us. We were pulling close to the same reaction times (about 0.7sec) and roughly the same 60' times. The deciding factor came in the finishing speed. My speeds were on order 2-3 miles an hour faster and that showed in the times. My best was a 13.9 his was a 14.2. It should be noted, though, that i just got the car in august, and he's been driving his for years now.

So, while feel often leads to speed (i.e. the harder you're forced to grab the passenger side hand rail, the faster you think you're going!!!), that's not always totally the case.

One more thing to note (and the vettes deserve this amendment) when we're autocrossing, however, I've never come close to a beating my rommy's 1991 vette. I'm always 1-2 seconds slower. They just handle like fighter jets!!!

Peace out!
 

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I am sorry Man, even with your mods, I don't think you can win. In a AWD 3000, or Stealth, you really don't have to be a good driver. The All wheel drive is a huge advantage. In some Japanese Circuits, they have banned AWD because the cars tend to do "TOO well"

In an off the line straight race, which is probably what you are talking about, the AWD Car can launch at 6000 RPMs with no Wheelspin.

I am sorry, but you have to be realistic, his car has too great of an advantage. ALL Wheel Drive 300HP. Him vs A cobra is more Even. THIS YEAR, A 320hp 3000GT place 10th in the Worlds Fastest Production cars. The 320HP Cobra got 11th place. And the VR-4 weighs hundreds more than a Cobra.

You will need to have the Same HP as he does to beat him. (see above Statement about the 99 VR-4 vs 99 Cobra) If a 320 Hp cobra can't beat a 320hp 3000, how can you expect a 260HP mustang to beat a 300HP Stealth? And that is assuming it is stock. Even if he has lost power over the years, he probably has not lost 40HP. Also, does he have any mods? A simple boost controller can add 20HP. He Might Weigh more, but he more than makes up for it with the AWD Launch.

You are probably more of a match for my 3000 with 222HP + underdrive Pully, K&N & RAM Air. Probably has 240 to 250 hp. I have no chance against a Twin Turbo 3000, or Stealth. Off the line, I have taken many Mustang GTs Out, but I don't race past 75 on the street.

Instead of wider tires, you should think about NOS. 100 shot. If you want to race, go ahead. But you probably will lose.

Tuan Luu
1994 3000GT Base
 

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Oh also, the Stock Turbos Reach full boost in the 2000s. And since he can launch at 6000, he won't have to wait for boost. 6000, shift = 4500 in the next gear. So there will not be any waiting for boost.

Off the line, you would get killed, his ALL wheel drive= 6000RPM launch with NO Tire spin. You probably launch at 3000, 3500 at most, and you really have to be good to do it with no spin.

Lets put it like this, if you you can beat a 95 cobra(305hp) then you can beat the Stealth TT(300hp). Those two pull in the Exact same QM times.

Tuan Luu
1994 3000GT Base
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Actually Tuan, it is the '96 and up Cobras that have 305 hp with the '99's having a rated 320 but only make 240-245 to the rear wheels before the recall. The '95 Cobra's were about 240hp.

Your mustang would run some good times with a set of drag radials, but I also think that if the Stealth owner can drive and launch, it isn't going to be too close. I can only speak on personal experience but my car went [email protected] with a K&N Conical filter. My slowest run ever was a [email protected] I do have a '94 with the 6-spd, but I only use the first 3 gears in the 1/4 anyway so I don't think that matters too much. I am also running 8 lbs of boost which is what the '91 would be running approximately. It would be fun but I think he has you.

I know that I would personally love to race 'ya as I can never find anyone around to race. You wouldn't happen to be in the New Orleans or Baton Rouge LA area? If not, good luck with the race and let us know the outcome!
 

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The only way you'll know is if you race your uncle. There are too many variables for an accurate guess of who would win. So go race and tell us the results.
 
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I'm telling you man. I have a 92 Stealth R/T non turbo and my friend has a 95 Stang GT and I'll get him every time. Not by much but I get him. He is also stock though. And if your picking on non turbo's on the highway with all those mods, your just not playing fair. Thats kind of an embarrassment to yourself. Your car came with 30 extra horse stock than a non turbo 3000/Stealth you should'nt even have to punch it hard to beat one now.
 

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Anybody can beat anybody. Hell, there's some jokers with NA V6's on the f-body site that *swear* they beat a viper. The only way to know is at the track, how can a bunch of people on the net, know who is a better driver, you, your dad or your uncle? What if you miss a shift? Then, even my hyundai would beat you! Is it a faster car then?
In terms of cars alone, with the same driver, I still think your Stang would be an interesting opponent with its mods, but with a few more PSI of boost on a stealth, I think short work of it would be made. If I were you, I'd try to race him a shorter distance, and get a rolling start to minimize wheelspin, your car will run out of breath and gear too early. If you let him get into 4th gear, you'll need a cell phone to congratulate him.
I miss the necksnapping torque my Mustang had, but I really enjoy the more well rounded driving experience that the stealth offers. There is some truth though, that the "feel" of a car doesn't necessarily win races. Mine was best only at killing other NA mustangs and f-bodies. Fact is it handled like a pick up truck too.
I'd probably have spent money on head work or a paxton instead of the aluminum driveshaft and intakes.Good luck with your race!

[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited December 07, 1999).]
 
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Discussion Starter #16
I am GOING to get a set of heads next Diablo. The reasoning behind the driveshaft was that my current one is vibrating, and needs replaced. The intake was something that I knew would give me that much more HP when I could afford the heads.

For Tuan, your statement about full boost above 2000 rpms is somewhat true. The one thing you forgot to factor in is the WAY a turbo works. It is spun by exhaust gases, therefore when you lift on the throttle (say for a shift), it rotates much slower, then when you hit the next gear, regardless of your RPM, it has to get back to spinning as fast as it was before. Sit in your car, and watching your boost gauge sit there and pump the throttle a couple of times. I am willing to bet that almost as quick as you lift on the throttle that little needle returns to negative boost.

Thanks for all the input. I know these cars are fast, and that at best I'll be able to run along side him. I wasn't looking for someone to tell me "Hey you'll kill him" especially not on YOUR turf (maybe in a Mustang board). I just wanted someone to look at it logically, and say, "Hey if you drive right you might have a chance". I like being the underdog anyway, cause if you are the one that SHOULD be faster you have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Ron, the 5 speed versus 6 speed will make a difference, even if you don't get above 3rd gear. The 6 speed has tighter ratio's which means that each shift drops your RPM that much less than the 5.

Oh, and by the way Mike, my car DID not come with 30 extra horse stock than a 3000 GT. Mine came with 215 CRANK HP from the factory. If I am not mistaken your POOR little picked on NON-Turbo Stealth/3000GT came with 222.

[This message has been edited by Slamd95gt (edited December 07, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Slamd95gt (edited December 07, 1999).]
 

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Okay, so we got a well modded stang Vs. a first gen that may be getting old and the dude can't shift. I would place my money on the stang. Why? Cause I am having trouble running a 87 GT, speed density (not a plus), K&N cone, 10mm wires, motorsport plugs, bored out, forged pistons, E303 cam, headers, h-pipe, dumps, and about 4.10 gears! This is me having probs when I run 15psi, and from a roll. If you can keep the tires from spinning, which seriously I doubt you can, then you have a better chance of taking it. If not, then it gets closer, however the shifting does make a difference that cannot be denied.
what has been said on torque is true, David rides in the stealth and is like SO!? and when I ride in the stang I nearly need new jeans! However even with a roll and me having my cats and bad bad plugs, he still didn't even make it with me behind him, I was at the door at least.
Stangs are funny, some are freaks. They pull like a mother and you could swear that they have done something you haven't and yet they have less mods.
Guys I am not saying this out of sympathy. You can build a stang that is a serious challenge to us. You can also build one that smokes a Viper. However, most aren't. And most will lose. I have definately killed more than my fair share of stangs, but this one sounds like it may be close. Let us know how it turns out!
 

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I had a '91 Mustang GT w/ K&N, Flowmaster cat-back, 355 gears, and some hanling/appearance mods a couple cars ago and while it was a fast car, I think my Stealth TT is considerably faster (albeit my Stealth is not stock). I still have a soft spot in my heart for Mustangs and many other performance cars (don't flame me guys!) so I'm not about to bust on your car but I think if driving skill were equal, a good-running Stealth TT would probably win.

I think you make a legitamate point about driver skill, though. If your Uncle can't launch or shift well and you can, that will give you an undeniable edge.

Like someone else already said, the only way to find out is to race him. Its not like you're racing for pink slips or anything, just a friendly race. No big deal who wins or loses unless you make it a big deal.

To all the guys who said you launch at 6,000 RPM, I say "how"? If your clutch is stock it will not hold (at least my recently replaced stocker wouldn't) and if you had a good aftermarket clutch this can't be good for our fragile transmissions (I've already replaced one, and that's enough for me).
 

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I said 6000RPMs, because that is what Popular Mechanics Launched with on the depending on its condition. Either Way, my Completely Stock 99 3000GT. It ran 13.44 Quatermile time. Albiet it was a Brand New 99. So the Stock clutch can hold at 6000 point is the AWD Stealths can launch at a very high RPM. Plus, it is not likely that he has a stock clutch at 120K miles.

I will say that at 250Hp, which is what Slammed Stang said he had at first, he really doesn't have much of a chance. At 260, which is what he said later, he has better chance, but still not much.
The Stealth Launches better, and has enough power to keep the Mustnag from Catching up. From a Rolling Start, It would be a much closer Race, but off the line, I don't think you have a chance. If you had said 280 HP, I would have said you can win, but 250, 260, 40 to 50HP is a lot to make up

Tuan Luu
 
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Discussion Starter #20
No Tuan, it is probably not the original clutch, but I am pretty damn sure that it isn't a Three Disc race clutch or anything like that. It also likely has a few miles on it.

Oh by the way, to be totally honest with you, leaving at 6000 RPM with an ALL WHEEL DRIVE car with the added traction of being at the track, you are going to get probably like 15 passes, or 15,000 miles (whichever comes first) out of your drivetrain. Good luck, and take us some pictures when you start shooting teeth out of the side of your tranny.

We'll see what happens, but you guys just have to remember that PEAK HP ain't everything. You have to factor in MANY things - Curb Weight, Gear ratios, the ENTIRE power curve (many 4 cylinder motors have 200+ PEAK HP, but nearly nothing until that peak i.e. S2000), with a Turbo car driver is a MAJOR MAJOR point, oh and if the racing is on the street you have to factor in the size of the driver's HUEVOS.

ONE MORE point. You guys are telling me that a STOCK 91 Stealth TT with 300 HP could EASILY break a 13.5, but then we have TUAN here making a BFD (Big F*&^ing Deal) about having turned a 13.44 with a BRAND NEW 3000 GT with 320 hp? I am not a professional drag racer, but I do know that a car with 320 hp, and a tight ratio 6 speed should be more then .06 faster in the 1/4 than a 300 hp car with a 5 speed.

[This message has been edited by Slamd95gt (edited December 07, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Slamd95gt (edited December 07, 1999).]
 
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