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TPW: The Prophet
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So, it's a show car with a drag car theme/styling. I get it now. (Not sarcasm)

Since you are dismissive of what this thread is actually about and can't take the minute to read the first post I'll put it out here with some background since you stay away from facebook......The #1 3S is Garrett's Chastain's 4g63 at 7.87. Demolishing Nelson's 8.57. Garrett's is a very light car that he spent thousands of hours on to get that light and is fully certified to 7.50 with a 25.5 cage cert. As you can imagine, it has created some controversy since it's not a 6g. and the 6g vs 4g debate on what's better, blah blah blah.

Plus some history... in the past, I was called an idiot (amongst other things) for putting a small engine in a heavy car and it will never perform. Mine went mid-9's in street trim (#5 3S at the time, now #8. Also at the time, the quickest running 3S on the planet, full interior, stock glass and OEM foglights).

Garrett took his "heavy" chassis 3000 and somehow got it 2600lb race weight with him in it. 400lbs lighter than Matt's gutted, lexan drag car. Garrett still has stock glass front and rear even. That should say how much damn work and effort went into making it as light as DSM drag cars. But now the conversation across Facebook and forums has been, "well of course it's faster" a 4G is proven, more parts, blah blah; which discounts the monumental effort he put into getting the chassis where it is, the ~12-14 times the trans was out just in 2019, and the fact that his car is Top10 AWD Mitsu in the world. Not a shop car for advertising and selling parts. Just a dude in his garage with a goal to wipe the streets and no preps and dedication to that goal, which ended up with some damn quick ET's when he lights up the boards.

Sooooo,,,, I created this Bounty that if anyone can beat Garrett's ET with a 6g, I'll give them $500. That has now grown to ~$2k and another $500 from Hellbringer if it's a manual car. A drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of a drag car build, but it's to get people "doing" instead of "bench racing" or "bitching" or downplaying my friend's results.

So that's the thread you are in (which I started on facebook).

It's purpose in every way, is to stir the pot!! Put up or shut up. Put your car on the line and let your nuts hang. Break some shit. Fix. Rinse, repeat. or,,,shut up.

And guess what, some of the biggest downplayer's here and on facebook, now get it.....After they whip out the wallace racing calculator, compare dyno's, look at past build sheets, look at the results, use available data, results and logic, and you come to the inevitable conclusion,,,,7.87 at 178mph is quick/fast as fuck and in no way an easy task. His 1/8 mph trap speed on that run (had issues in the back half), calculates out to 1300awhp through an auto. Can it be done with a 6g? Absolutely, but the chassis has to be there too. And commitment to replacing auto trans parts every weekend.

Mitsutimes.org is helping keep track of it all for me now and the bounty has created more traffic to his site than he ever had. Also picked him up a new sponsor to the site which contributed to the bounty pay out as well.

Now to be fair to garrett, since no one did this for him, some of us have decided to do a "reverse bounty". So, if no one beats his ET by the end of 2020, he'll get our bounty pledge. I think that is over $1200 now.
I appreciate the recap as I definitely did not read the first post and didn't want to dig through 150 posts to find what pulled Craig back to 3Si. I'll admit, I find your idea interesting; however, do I think it will drum up much interest in making a 6G 3/S faster than 7.87? No, I don't. It took years to build Slayer (I was the one who moved away) and probably would have taken another couple to get some competitive runs down the strip (at our rate, we got together on weekends for the most part). I think your "2020 bounty" will really only invigorate someone who is close to finishing or finished and maybe doing a few things to go faster; someone starting out will spend a year or more waiting on or fabricating parts probably. Not sure if you're following this one; but, look at Rob Dahm and his AWD 4-rotor RX-7; that project is on its 4th year and is just now driving but still has a long way to go before it is truly finished. But, as Craig said, he's done with Slayer for now; he's certainly not going to dust it off and start running it for the potential to win $2k. We know Chris Hill isn't going to be racing any time soon. I have no idea if Matt or Nelson are planning to pull any of their 3/S projects off the shelf, but I doubt it. Chris Behnken has his build but I don't think it is close to running 7sec passes (I could be wrong). Admittedly, I also don't follow the community that closely to know if there is someone else working on something big or how close they are. So, that is the problem I see with the whole debate. It is interesting and has potential but it just doesn't seem to have the legs to really get things going in my opinion. I could be wrong, and that is ok, my opinion probably isn't worth much. Would I like to see the 3/S (with a 6G7X) get more mainstream attention; sure, but I don't think it has much of a chance, even among enthusiasts.


No wonder we never heard what it ran. It would have been interesting at the time and may have motivated others to keep pushing. I cant even remember pics from HIN being posted. But that gt42 debate was classic.
We talked about it; but, posting a 10.1 shakedown pass at the time wouldn't have meant much overall; there were plenty of faster 3/Ss with more power out there. From what I remember of the conversations, we felt it would really only create doubt/drama (headaches) more than anything, so we just kept it to ourselves as we weren't impressing anyone (or trying to). Not to mention, the team had other things and competing priorities in life; so, we enjoyed the project and the friendships we made in the process; but, it was time to move on to other things.
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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8,228 Posts
Discussion Starter #162 (Edited)
I appreciate the recap as I definitely did not read the first post and didn't want to dig through 150 posts to find what pulled Craig back to 3Si. I'll admit, I find your idea interesting; however, do I think it will drum up much interest in making a 6G 3/S faster than 7.87? No, I don't. It took years to build Slayer (I was the one who moved away) and probably would have taken another couple to get some competitive runs down the strip (at our rate, we got together on weekends for the most part). I think your "2020 bounty" will really only invigorate someone who is close to finishing or finished and maybe doing a few things to go faster; someone starting out will spend a year or more waiting on or fabricating parts probably. Not sure if you're following this one; but, look at Rob Dahm and his AWD 4-rotor RX-7; that project is on its 4th year and is just now driving but still has a long way to go before it is truly finished. But, as Craig said, he's done with Slayer for now; he's certainly not going to dust it off and start running it for the potential to win $2k. We know Chris Hill isn't going to be racing any time soon. I have no idea if Matt or Nelson are planning to pull any of their 3/S projects off the shelf, but I doubt it. Chris Behnken has his build but I don't think it is close to running 7sec passes (I could be wrong). Admittedly, I also don't follow the community that closely to know if there is someone else working on something big or how close they are. So, that is the problem I see with the whole debate. It is interesting and has potential but it just doesn't seem to have the legs to really get things going in my opinion. I could be wrong, and that is ok, my opinion probably isn't worth much. Would I like to see the 3/S (with a 6G7X) get more mainstream attention; sure, but I don't think it has much of a chance, even among enthusiasts.




We talked about it; but, posting a 10.1 shakedown pass at the time wouldn't have meant much overall; there were plenty of faster 3/Ss with more power out there. From what I remember of the conversations, we felt it would really only create doubt/drama (headaches) more than anything, so we just kept it to ourselves as we weren't impressing anyone (or trying to). Not to mention, the team had other things and competing priorities in life; so, we enjoyed the project and the friendships we made in the process; but, it was time to move on to other things.
Comparing a YouTube channel completely fabricated custom build from the ground up, outsourcing 90% to other companies and with an approach that seems to have purposely taken too long to stretch out views and content, to a 7 sec stock chassis drag car build makes zero sense to me. (I do watch his channel though obviously, and enjoy what he's doing).

I’ve also already said, it has pushed interest. I agree with you that it is not likely that someone will collect. But if you want to make a longer timeline bounty, go for it. No one stopping you or anyone else. There are two cars that should be capable with tweaks this year. But both have their own set of problems.

Of course $2k isn’t why people would do it. Garrett and I don’t race for profits either (unfortunately, lol). It’s the fun, pride, adrenaline, accomplishment etc. Heads up racing against people and not just the clock is something most 3Sers don’t do either. Nelson, Matt and Chris didn't. It was just for the record time slips. Different game when it’s heads up against other platforms and people.

And yes, there are new players in the 3S game then the ones you listed.

As suspected, the 10.1 wasn’t what was wanted which means there were ET expectations.

It’s hard to get a car deep 8’s. Requires dedication. Most don’t have it. I am a one man crew (other than now I outsource shortblock assembly to Kakperformance), only working on weekends around life and kids, and completely fabbed an LS swap (front subframe, control arms, rear end, steering etc etc etc) built a turbo kit, swapped engine harness etc and got it running sooner than most 3Sers can do a turbo install. No it’s not a HIN show car, but it’s a 20footer and better looking than most cars at the drag strip.

Mainstream attention? You mean like the 1320video feature video my car had last year? Or the coverage Larry and Garrett had at the shootout from 1320video a couple years ago. Or the two features TRC have done on Brian’s car? Plus many smaller cameo’s, some magazine features etc from each of us. 4g,6g and LS all represented on the biggest forms in automotive media we have today.

When 3Ss actually get out and race other cars, they get attention. Sitting in a garage or bench racing on facebook doesn’t get much attention.

They still look great and draw a crowd, especially at the track since no one sees them there.

 

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TPW: The Prophet
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4,186 Posts
I stopped watching 1320 when they changed the format several years ago to seem more like a news channel; it wasn't what I enjoyed about the 1320 video channel so I unsubscribed. I remember seeing your car in videos posted on facebook and what not (although, I'll admit that I didn't know that was you until reading your post) and others and that is great, more power to you. I just don't have the time to follow things like I used to due to work, family, life, and what not. Heck, my own car has been on jackstands since Aug 2018.

Anyhow, I agree, a stock chassis car is going to take less time than a full tube frame production/fabrication. However, that was not the intent of my point. You already commented that Garrett got his car down to 2600lbs; you're not getting there with a completely stock setup, it will take a lot of cutting, fabricating, bracing, etc. It isn't going to happen over night; and, knowing how long builds tend to take, it isn't going to happen in a year. That was my point, using Rob's RX-7 as an example (I wanted to emphasize the unanticipated delays that projects tend to be subjected to, it isn't always about views). It's great you were able to turn your car into a Camaro (I'm joking here, the purist in my just doesn't like it is all) in such a short amount of time; that is truly awesome being able to balance family and work and hobbies; but, you and I probably have different responsibilities so it is potentially an apples and oranges comparison and doesn't really have any weight into the larger discusion. None-the-less, if someone claims the "bounty," cool; I'm not going to feel any particular way about it; I don't have a dog in that fight (even if my car was 100%).

None the less, you're set on why this is a good idea and the increased internet traffic and sponsorships do support your point. Again, this was just my opinion.
 

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1G Foglights b!tches
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8,228 Posts
Discussion Starter #164 (Edited)
The intention of the bounty is getting twisted up. It's a little kick of motivation for big builds to push and get out there and maybe push to light-weight more, and for the keyboard kings to put up or shut up. That's it.

I had no intentions of this getting someone from zero to deep 8/high 7 drag car in 12-14months. (However, I did a whole LS swap, custom turbo kit, custom k member, custom rear end, etc etc etc in that time frame and ran pretty quick, so it's not impossible, I just know a 120k service takes most 3Sers longer than I can build an entire car. ;))
 

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TPW: The Prophet
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4,186 Posts
Ok, so I think we're arguing the same point from different perspectives; with that, I'll leave it to those with big builds who are interested in entering this contest. Best of luck to you all.
 
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