Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP! - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

I have more rust free, straight 3000GT bodies than I know what to do with here in KC. I buy as many as I can on the way to the scrappers by placing local ads to head them off. I find myself with a very large excess of straight rust free bodies that we have stripped bare and stored the parts for future use. I can't bring myself to crush perfect metal. So I have always wanted to build a rear or mid engine 3000GT VR4. I have #8 Vr4s of various rarity but want an exotic race car for the road not straight line track. I do not understand taking a great touring animal and making it run in a straight line and stand up and bark at everyone. Don't get me wrong I love HP and will build it in I just want to actually go somewhere in the hills north of the city while doing so. I love the AWD/AWS. Bought my 1st VR4 in 1991 new. I have in part figured out how to place the setup by eliminating the pretty useless rear seats and continue to use the hatch similar to a couple of the european sports cars leaving the engine and all its goodies for everyone to drool over. I am most likely going to go with a 6G74 setup. With all the extra room in back fitment will not be a problem. The biggest question is how to get the engine to translate the rotary motion of the engine to all 4 wheels? If the engine is set inline (instead of sideways) it can drive the LSD and the transmission would just need a different shifter handle to keep the gears straight. I have thought of mounting the Transfer Case at the front of the driveline placing it in a position to transfer the inline motion perpendicular to the front shafts as it was designed to do. In theory its sound doable BUT while I have done several fabrication projects in my time I have learned to ask the experts before lifting the 1st wrench or start throwing money at it. The inline racers we used to build out of corvettes. Those are boats in comparison to the 3000GTs. Any constructive input is welcome. I am low on ego and high on ambition. This will be my last mod build as I am down to years rather than decades to play with. I want one last rocket to take me to freedom. Thanks!-Kip
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

The first thing to do is look at other AWD rear/mid engine cars. Porsche is one example.

You will need to find and purchase an AWD rear engine type transaxle to even get a basic idea of mounting anything. Really, you would need the entire drivetrain from whatever car you choose to pull parts from. Then have axles and driveshafts made to fit the wheelbase of the 3s.
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

I have thought of that for the rear seat block off transition. Does the Porsche actually interchange if with a little work? Any idea of other specific vehicles have a fitment equivalence with the rear wheel/AWD drive? I will look at other applications on the suspension engine set up for rear and mid engine drives. I had a Mechanical ASE engineer offer that the rear and front suspension might be reversed which initially got me thinking. He unfortunately was lost to his fate. I am willing to cut and fabricate but the Uni-body with the small frames I thought were specific to the GTs/Stealth's? If anyone has any information on vehicles specifically to look at (an exhaustive list would be very helpful) or using our existing suspensions to keep the AWD/AWS I would greatly appreciate it. Once I have this all figured out I will take photos and video as the work proceeds to share with others. Thanks for the initial lead-Kip

Last edited by [email protected]; 04-17-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 04-17-2019, 01:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

I have looked at this also many times. I came to the conclusion that its just not practical to use an AWD drive train from another mid/rear engine platform and there is no easy way to reverse the direction of the VR4's transfer case.

That said, a RWD setup using a VR4 motor would be pretty interesting.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

I don't want to be negative. But I was told these same (similar) words when i started out.

If you are asking these types of questions, chances are... you do not have the experience to take on this task. This is no simply cutting and welding. This takes engineering and a fully capable machinist/welder to complete. If you don't have full access to a mill, lathe, quality welder, pipe/tube bender, and know how to use them all skillfully. The cards are stacked HEAVILY against you. Not counting the design and planning to get it done correctly.

So... If you have the above mentioned equipment and skills. I will aid in advice the best I can. As I have worked as a Precision welder, Machinist, and now in Mechanical Engineering.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

You would be better off just taking a FWD Engine and Trans, and moving it to the back - AWD won't make the car faster, if anything it will just slow it down, between the weight, and the power lost through the drivetrain, and with the power being sent to the rear wheels you won't really have any straight line traction problems unless you are making big power.

You'll also have a really hard time coming up with halfway decent suspension geometry, that is superior to what Mitsubishi develop, so chances are the car will not handle well either.

If it is handling you are after, good tires along with a fresh set of shocks goes a very long way - despite what keyboard warriors tell you these cars handle very well - a little nose heavy on low speed corners but they make up for it at highspeed corners.

It's difficult to make it truly comparable to any modern sports car, but compared to a NSX, FD RX-7, Supra, Skyline GTR, etc these cars are already there. They lack the tightness and agility of the NSX and RX-8 but have the raw mechanical grip, corner exit speed, and high speed stability to even the playing field on the straights and faster corners.

If you want to do this project properly take a look at cars like the Mercedes CLK GTR,

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Old 04-17-2019, 03:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

OP, since you have multiple body shells, I'd be tempted to remove and strip the entire front section from one and gut the rear section of another. Then attach the front to the rear and re-attach the rear 1/4 panels. Lots of work but I bet it could be done with little showing from the outside.

That way you would retain all of the engine mounts, suspension hard points etc.

You really want the IC's to get good air flow, which is hard to do if they are mounted in the rear. You don't want to have long pipe runs as it will give massive boost lag. So an air-water I/C in the rear with water lines to a secondary radiator in the front would be the way to go. Then I'd keep the radiator in the front but duct it and the I/C secondary up through the hood. Then you avoid all of the cooling and airflow issues that plague mid engine vehicles.

With the engine relocated and the rear subframe assembly gone, There is probably scope to do a mid engine RWD with AWS and come out at less than 3,000lb with a decent interior. Could be a cool project.

Last edited by OldMadBrit; 04-17-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Mid or rear engine placement keeping the AWD/AWS HELP!

Wish I had the room for a spare shell. My VR4 is not exactly mint but don't have the garage space to fit a 4th car in my 2 car garage.

I'm in the KC area and would be interested in lending a hand from time to time if you need.
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