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Old 06-16-2019, 07:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3KGTANG View Post
Basically how I came to this:
Grounds in the wheel fenders were pretty corroded so that was a spotty connection.. cleaned up, still doesn't work. Tested wiring from relay to horns and all seem good. Horn works when I jump the relay socket, so I've now narrowed it to the control side (ie somewhere between the steering wheel button and the relay). Buttons work well and good continuity/contact from the buttons to the metal steering wheel.
There’s a plug C-57 under dash near steering column (4 pin straight plug). It should have Green wire with black stripe on one side of connector and Gray wire on the other side of pin #2 which goes to clock spring. Try grounding that connector pin with short jumper wire and see if horn blows.

If it doesn’t blow when grounding pin2, that would indicate problem is between that plug and relay ground control socket.

If it blows problem is in clock spring assembly or poor ground with buttons thru column shaft. To test unplug that connector and take continuity reading between Gray wire at open plug to same wire going to buttons under air bag. Basically trying to eliminate clock spring as the problem

Last edited by white93gt; 06-16-2019 at 08:34 PM. Reason: last edit to correct color of one wire
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

thanks, that helps/will check!
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

Ok, I've removed the knee protector, followed the wire from the horn buttons (mine is a green/red wire) to the plug (C-57 I believe). Unplugged and grounded Pin#2 (green/black wire) with a jumper to a known ground.

No horn sound. (12V confirmed at the battery, and as said before the horns and relay all tested good).

So if I've tested this correctly, my issue is between plug C-57 and the relay correct? (good because that rules out the clock spring area, but bad because that seems like a pain in the @$$ to trace from there:S... I've attached pictures here to show what I was looking at/testing.
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File Type: jpg horn wires - buttons to clockspring.jpg (759.4 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg under dash -knee prot removed.jpg (384.8 KB, 5 views)
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

2 more pictures showing plug C-57 (at least what I think is C-57).

Nothing happened when I grounded pin #2. I touched pin #4 briefly by accident which sparked a bit but again nothing with pin#2
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

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....So if I've tested this correctly, my issue is between plug C-57 and the relay correct?........
Yeah, that's what that indicates (you did have relay in place, Right?). Prints show that Green/black wire running back to relay plug for grounding control side to close it and blow horn. It does pass thru C-02 connector (large 19 pin) somewhere near or above fuse box.

I can't recognize C-57 by sight, just have to go by schematics. If your wire from C-57 plug to clock spring/buttons is Green/red, that indicates another error with prints, not the first found by the way. That wire is shown as "GR" which indicates Gray wire by legend. Green wire with red tracer should be "G-R", only difference is the "-" an easy mistake and is what got me a little confused at first causing edits.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

hmm. Yep relay was in and 12V was all connected. And yep definitely Green/red wire going from C-57 plug to horn buttons. I'm at work right now (with a few min to spare) so trying to wrap my head around things before I get back at it

I'm attaching the wiring diagram in this post to keep things clear.

According to what I've tested and what I see on the diagram, this only leaves the wires between the relay and C-57 (which includes one other connector C-02) to test right?

Unless there is something to check that goes in between the theft alarm horn and the regular horn.. On the wiring diagram it makes think there could be especially since the alarm horn also isn't working... but not sure I understand that part of the diagram since there is no connector between C-57 and C-02. Thoughts?
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File Type: png horn electril wiring diagram.PNG (115.9 KB, 3 views)
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

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Originally Posted by 3KGTANG View Post
.....
According to what I've tested and what I see on the diagram, this only leaves the wires between the relay and C-57 (which includes one other connector C-02) to test right?......
That’s correct, also could be break in Green/black wire between C-02 and relay socket or even bad connection at relay socket itself.

Quote:
Unless there is something to check that goes in between the theft alarm horn and the regular horn.. On the wiring diagram it makes think there could be especially since the alarm horn also isn't working... but not sure I understand that part of the diagram since there is no connector between C-57 and C-02. Thoughts?
Horn circuit with alarm.pngAnother problem found in many of theses prints is incomplete lines, requiring some interpretation. The junction of lines circled in red should look same as where circled in yellow. That line allows ETACS to ground and blow regular horns at same time it does alarm horn, while the diode in that line doesn’t allow any current flow to other leg between C-02 & C-57 keeping horn buttons from blowing alarm horn. At first impression you would wonder why have an alarm horn if regular horns are also used, I suspect it’s a backup feature so some horn will work during alarm with either dedicated fuse #3 or multi-purpose fuse #14 blown or failure of either relay (Probably more than you wanted to know ). But I can’t imagine any problem on alarm side keeping regular horn side from working.

Edit: An after thought, C-02 connector not plugged together properly could disable both sides as wire from both are shown passing thru that connector (indicated by dashed line). Also that dashed line shows connections at pin 7 & 18, looking at plug layout at bottom of page shows those two pins are above/below each other (coincident maybe ).

Last edited by white93gt; 06-20-2019 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

thanks for this info, and appreciate your input! definitely helps decipher the diagram (I realize it's explained at the beginning of the document but still, these take awhile to realize what you're looking at!).
Not really understanding the diode in the diagram though.. looks like it's allowing power right to left and blocking left to right, but what does that accomplish? allows ETACS to power all horns?

Anyway, I'm going to try ground pin 7 and 18 within C-02 and see if that makes the horns blow.. hopefully it does, then it's just a short wire to replace that I have access to at this point. ..I think.. lol

Last edited by 3KGTANG; 06-20-2019 at 03:03 PM. Reason: had direction of power through diode reversed
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3KGTANG View Post
.....Not really understanding the diode in the diagram though.. looks like it's allowing power right to left and blocking left to right, but what does that accomplish? allows ETACS to power all horns?.....
That is correct about direction of flow and no flow, which does allow regular horn relay coil (control) to be energized closing that relay so those horns will blow along with alarm horn, which is energize by the Blue/green wire (L-G) so as you said blows all horns. While not allowing steering wheel buttons to cause flow left to right keeping relay coil for alarm horn from being energized and keeping alarm horn from blowing when steering wheel buttons pushed.

Edit: If above is confusing… simply put, diode does allow ETACS to power all horns and Steering wheel buttons to only blow regular horns.

Quote:
Anyway, I'm going to try ground pin 7 and 18 within C-02 and see if that makes the horns blow.. hopefully it does, then it's just a short wire to replace that I have access to at this point. ..I think.. lol
Grounding pin 7 should cause regular horns to blow. But grounding pin 18 won’t do anything, because if you look at diagram closely pin 18 is on power delivery side of relay for alarm horn not the control side ground for the relay.

Last edited by white93gt; 06-20-2019 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

FIXED!

I got to the point of narrowing it down to a bad wire between the relay (engine compartment) and the first plug/connection the wire goes through (C-02 as shown in wiring diagram). Essentially decided I had to run a new wire because the wire joins the harness/clump of hundreds of other wires going in the engine bay... so definitely not worth ripping that apart at risk of damaging another wire(s).
I forgot to take pictures of where I ran the new wire, but I stuck one end in the bottom of the relay socket (where the current non-functioning ground wire is), ran around the back of the engine then through the firewall (used the grommet on the driver's side as shown in the Stealth316 link below), then joined it into plug C-57 pin #2 as in the pictured above.

Then just put everything back together and voila! Horn finally works as it should using the normal buttons on the wheel
What a massive pain in the A$$ that turned out to be... but was necessary for getting the car certified, and well, I learned some about our electrical wiring diagrams and a few other annoying things along the way lol. Hopefully someone else can skim through this thread and get something from it if they have a horn issue down the road!

Thanks a lot to white93gt, striker3, and Stealth 316 for plenty of help/info. Cheers!

http://www.stealth316.com/2-dashpanelaccess.htm

Last edited by 3KGTANG; 07-03-2019 at 07:56 PM. Reason: added Stealth 316 link showing firewall pass-through
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