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Old 06-05-2019, 04:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

Hey guys,

So I bought the car last summer and have a few things to fix on her.. first off is the horn which is all I need to get it inspected/insured/on the road. Horn is not working, (not stuck on or intermittent like many others have had).

I have also pulled up the service manuals to look at horn specs and wiring diagrams, but not sure what else I can get from them.. unless it has something to do with the alarm (but the rest of the alarm functions fine).

Anyway I have searched the forum and tried a bunch of things... Any help would be greatly appreciated! Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but here is where I'm at:

1-Horns themselves work fine (disconnected from the car and hooked directly to 12V)

2-Cruise and Hazards work (well I have some issues with cruise but it powers up, so I don't think is a clockspring problem)

3-Alarm works (minus the horn) when I lock the doors, then reach through window and open the door. Headlights pop up and hazards blink

4-swapped fuse and relay with working ones. (relay worked for the fog lights for example)

5-pulled off the airbag and tested the horn buttons and continuity between the 2 buttons and where they connect into the clockspring. All good connections there

6-have continuity from the battery (pos) to the relay, and to the fuse.

7-Don't have continuity between the relay connector (bottom half) and the horn wires (end where the horn connects). Shouldn't there be? /does this mean that connector itself is bad? (it looks fine/no corrosion etc and seems unlikely to just break?)

Really looking forward to getting this fixed/inspected/back on the road!
Thanks for any help!
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

The alarm horn is completely separate from the main horns and is located under the throttle cable box next to the driver side engine mount.

The main horns are located in the front center grill (assuming someone hasnt moved them). The wiring for them is extremely simple. Assuming you have power at pins 1 & 5 of the horn relay, try pulling the relay and jumping pin 5 to pin 4 and then checking for voltage at the horns. If you do, test for continuity to ground on the other (black) wires.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

Thanks for the reply striker.
I know where the horns are located (removed them and tested them separately, as well as the alarm horn (though I didn't remove that one to test yet come to think of it). I have not tried jumping the pins yet, so I can definitely try that next.

Wouldn't the issue have to be somewhere else though considering that both the normal horns AND the alarm horn aren't working? (didn't think the alarm horn goes through the same relay). or are they both going through that relay connector?
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

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Thanks for the reply striker.
I know where the horns are located (removed them and tested them separately, as well as the alarm horn (though I didn't remove that one to test yet come to think of it). I have not tried jumping the pins yet, so I can definitely try that next.
Lots of people arent aware that there is a separate alarm horn and it wasnt totally clear that you were so I figured it was worth noting just in case.

Quote:
Wouldn't the issue have to be somewhere else though considering that both the normal horns AND the alarm horn aren't working? (didn't think the alarm horn goes through the same relay). or are they both going through that relay connector?
They do have different relays, however the only thing they have in common on the power side is fusible link 6 (large 40A in the under-hood junction box) which provides power for several other things so you would have more than horn issues if that were bad. On the trigger side, both relays can be triggered by the ETACS system but that wouldn't keep the horn switches in the steering wheel from working.

All the horns ground in the fender wells (main horns in the passenger side and alarm horn in the driver side) which can sometimes get pretty corroded so it may be a grounding issue.
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

I thought about the ETACS, and I recently got BlackStealth's ScanTool (which is awesome) so thought that may help, but it only shows pulses, no codes or wave forms for that system.

I did not know where the grounds were, not easy to trace wires in this engine bay >:S ... so thanks! (are they easy to get to? I'll try that tomorrow). Seems weird for 2 separate spots to be bad.. but I guess if it's a common area for corrosion it could be the case. Will try and give an update here, Cheers!

edit: found the diagram in the service manual (showing grounding locations) so I should be able to find it with that

Last edited by 3KGTANG; 06-05-2019 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 08:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

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Originally Posted by 3KGTANG View Post
5-pulled off the airbag and tested the horn buttons and continuity between the 2 buttons and where they connect into the clockspring. All good connections there
But did you check for continuity to ground from clockspring connector when horn buttons where pushed.

Quote:
7-Don't have continuity between the relay connector (bottom half) and the horn wires (end where the horn connects). Shouldn't there be? /does this mean that connector itself is bad? (it looks fine/no corrosion etc and seems unlikely to just break?)
Don't completely understand your question here. If "(bottom half)" means relay plug socket, there should be two large and two smaller plug points in socket. With relay removed, one large and one small should have 12volts on them, the other smaller socket (without voltage) should have continuity to ground only when horn button is pressed.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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But did you check for continuity to ground from clockspring connector when horn buttons where pushed.
hmm I'll have to double check this.. but the buttons were clean/contacting well, and isn't the main steering wheel (metal part inside) a ground? I guess I'll have to confirm that's working by touching to another ground somewhere eh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white93gt View Post
Don't completely understand your question here. If "(bottom half)" means relay plug socket, there should be two large and two smaller plug points in socket. With relay removed, one large and one small should have 12volts on them, the other smaller socket (without voltage) should have continuity to ground only when horn button is pressed.
Yes by "bottom half" I meant the socket, sorry. I did confirm 12V on those parts, but did not check for continuity to ground (with button pushed), so that at least gives me another thing to test.

Thanks for the help so far guys, I'm hopeful that between checking the grounds in the fenders and these last 2 tips I'll get a better answer tonight when I get home!

Last edited by 3KGTANG; 06-06-2019 at 09:13 AM. Reason: quotes
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3KGTANG View Post
hmm I'll have to double check this.. but the buttons were clean/contacting well, and isn't the main steering wheel (metal part inside) a ground? I guess I'll have to confirm that's working by touching to another ground somewhere eh.
Yes that would be the ground point for steering wheel horn buttons. Basically buttons just grounds control side of relay causing it to close, which then passes power from larger 12v socket plug point thru relay to other larger socket plug point and on to horns causing them to blow.

If you check smaller plug socket (one without power) to ground and it shows continuity when horn button pushed, steering wheel buttons are working correctly and no need to check in steering wheel.

Quote:
Yes by "bottom half" I meant the socket, sorry. I did confirm 12V on those parts, but did not check for continuity to ground (with button pushed), so that at least gives me another thing to test.
OK… then your #7 question in first post sounds like you’re questioning if larger socket plug point (without power), should have continuity to horn connectors. If so answer is YES, there should be continuity from there to both horn connectors on the Green wire with red stripe. That’s the only way power can get to horns when relay closes.


Edit: Just for clarity we’re talking about horn relay in junction box under hood between engine air filter and head light, NOT horn relay at fuse box inside of car which is for alarm horn.

Last edited by white93gt; 06-06-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

I finally got a chance to go check this sorry for the delay on follow up (busy weekend!) Really aiming to get this figured out before the end of the week/next couple of days now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by white93gt View Post
Yes that would be the ground point for steering wheel horn buttons. Basically buttons just grounds control side of relay causing it to close, which then passes power from larger 12v socket plug point thru relay to other larger socket plug point and on to horns causing them to blow.

If you check smaller plug socket (one without power) to ground and it shows continuity when horn button pushed, steering wheel buttons are working correctly and no need to check in steering wheel.
I did get continuity when checking between smaller plug socket (one without power) to ground when the horn button was pushed.. but it still had continuity WITHOUT the button pushed too... I thought that would mean the horn would be stuck on... (which is not the problem so not sure what I'm missing here!). Is something cross wired or what else could it be?

So to be clear, this is what I got: Good continuity between one large socket plug and the horn black wires, and also good continuity between one small socket plug and the horn black wires. Makes no difference if the horn buttons are pushed or not.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Horn issue - searched/troubleshot/stuck!

*UPDATE*

Ok, so I've narrowed down some more things and think it's down to a spotty ground connection from the steering wheel..? Looks like I'm not getting solid/constant continuity from the metal part of the wheel to a known ground. Where would be the weak point of this be?.. should I pull the dash under the steering wheel out to chase a ground wire or is there an obvious point?

Basically how I came to this:
Grounds in the wheel fenders were pretty corroded so that was a spotty connection.. cleaned up, still doesn't work. Tested wiring from relay to horns and all seem good. Horn works when I jump the relay socket, so I've now narrowed it to the control side (ie somewhere between the steering wheel button and the relay). Buttons work well and good continuity/contact from the buttons to the metal steering wheel.
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