Make your own valve spring compressor for $15

[Blue94VR4inNM]

Clint,

If I'm doing this in two weeks with the motor out of the car, do you recommend that I use your tool (or a tool similar to yours if you are just giving out the design), or am I better off just pulling the cams since the motor is going to be out already and timing belt off?

Josh

[cbatters]

Originally Posted by Blue94VR4inNM

Clint,

If I'm doing this in two weeks with the motor out of the car, do you recommend that I use your tool (or a tool similar to yours if you are just giving out the design), or am I better off just pulling the cams since the motor is going to be out already and timing belt off?

Josh

You obviously have more tool options options available with the engine out. Removing the cam shafts in your case would only take an extra 5 minutes and would give you better access for installing VSS / keepers. The problem with the engine out is that you need to put something under the head to push up against the valves to keep them from dropping while you are trying to install the keepers.

Zero Compression After Replacing VSS
As you know I was replacing some more of my VSS this weekend using the new tool. However, when I went to check compression before starting the engine, I was shocked to see I was getting 0 PSI on all of the cylinders that I had replaced the VSS.

Upon careful inspection of the lifters on the cylinders with zero compression, I noticed they were protruding ~.100" more than the ones on cylinders that I had not touched.

As a quick test, I removed/installed the rocker arm on one of the cylinders that I had not touched before and noticed that immediately after tension was released the lifter was in an extended position and now I had another cylinder with 0 PSI. This test confirmed it was a problem with the lifters and not some other problem.

When removed, the lifter could not be compressed by hand so I put it into a vise (using several layers of cloth to protect the machined surfaces) and slowly compressed the lifter. Once removed from the vise, the lifter could be easily compressed by hand. I reinstalled the lifter and compression was back to 155 PSI. I did the same thing on the other lifters and comrpession was back to 155 on all cylinders and the engine runs like a champ.

QUESTION
Is it normal to have to "reset" valve lifters before re-using them or is this a symptom of old lifters? (I will pull one of the lifters tomorrow that I reset tonight and see if it can still be compresed by hand.)

Note: These are 1G lifters with ~150K miles. No problems with noise as long as the oil is kept clean. If I had not "reset" the lifters, the engine would never have started given the near zero compression. Wondering how many other engines with ~120K+ miles would have the same problem with stuck lifters if the rocker arms were removed to replace VSS.


Clint

PS: Moral to the story - ALWAYS check compression before attempting to start an engine after doing any work on valvetrain.

[BLACK94TT]

I replaced my VSS with the engine in the car with the cams removed and another time pulled the cams with the engine out of the car. If you already have the engine out and the belt off, it's cake to pull the cams. Just keep the caps organized, use assembly lube, and torque them back down to specs. Very easy.

[skunkworks]

here is my thought - your lifters never run fully extended. Then - when you removed the rockers the lifters fully extended. Maybe there is dirt/varnish/sludge in that range of the lifter that made them stick all the way out.

Or maybe they are wore funny so that they stuck fully extended.

Other than that I don't know. Odd though either way

How many did you get done? Both heads or just the front?

sam

[cbatters]

Originally Posted by skunkworks

here is my thought - your lifters never run fully extended. Then - when you removed the rockers the lifters fully extended. Maybe there is dirt/varnish/sludge in that range of the lifter that made them stick all the way out.

Or maybe they are wore funny so that they stuck fully extended.

Other than that I don't know. Odd though either way

How many did you get done? Both heads or just the front?

sam

I spent most of the time screwing around with the dropped valve. I did 2 of the three cylinders up front and I will do the last cylinder tonight. (Second cylinder only took ~10-15 minutes to install VSS but that is when I discovered the lack of comrpession.

STICKY LIFTER
I agree with your hypothesis. This is the first time the lifter has been fully extended in 11 years and could have some ridge/varnish that was preventing it from being compressing. Wasn't sure if there was some sort of valve in the lifter that allowed it to extend quickly but retract slowly.

Surprised that this problem has not been posted before - if not caught, it could cause a valve to burn by keeping them partially open. (Maybe no one replaces VSS without also upgrading lifters.)

Note: There was another thread where they were talking about old "fixed" adjusters that were longer in length. I believe they were referring to this same condition and did not realize that the lifter could be compressed if you put it in a vise.


Clint

[skunkworks]

Then the quesiton is if the engine started would have the lifters compressed normally after running for a few minutes so no one would have noticed the problem exept for rough-odd running for a bit. Boy that was a long sentence.

sam

[skunkworks]

I am excited - felpro valve cover and valve stem seals in the end of this week.

http://www.electronicsam.com/images/lash.JPG not 56k friendly

sam

[cbatters]

Originally Posted by skunkworks

Then the quesiton is if the engine started would have the lifters compressed normally after running for a few minutes so no one would have noticed the problem exept for rough-odd running for a bit. Boy that was a long sentence.

sam

In hindsight, what I should have done was gone out for a drink and come back after a few hours and tried the compression test again.(30 minutes did not make any difference but I never tried waiting 3-4 hours.)

Running the engine on 3 cylinders with open exhaust / intake valves and lots of unburnt fuel would have been a pretty nasty experience. (Pretty much guaranteed to push fire/explosions right up the intake track!) I'll stick with my old school techniques of verifying proper oil pressure and compression before even thinking about firing up the engine.

As per earlier post, I will do a couple tests tonight to see how long it would have taken to bleed down by itself.

Wondering out-loud if the 3G lifters have a different / faster bleed down time using a larger internal orfice that is less prone to clogging. My 1G lifters are church-mouse quiet so I am uninclined to upgrade/change.


Clint

[skunkworks]

How is it going- No pressure
I have not heard from autozone although they said it should be friday for my seals - Could you email the tool to me? I have 1000mb of mail space. Should be enough space to digitize it.

Ok I want to ask this one more time - maybe I read the answer but I am a little dense - You dropped the vavle into the cylinder when it was not at TDC. Now you said you wished that it had been at TDC - so are you saying that the valve would not have fallen far enough in to get out of the vavle guides? That it could then be pulled back out from above or atleast pushed back out with a hook in the spark plug hole? Sorry for the question again but I just have not gotten a clear answer yet.

sam

[cbatters]

Originally Posted by skunkworks

How is it going- No pressure
I have not heard from autozone although they said it should be friday for my seals - Could you email the tool to me? I have 1000mb of mail space. Should be enough space to digitize it.

Ok I want to ask this one more time - maybe I read the answer but I am a little dense - You dropped the vavle into the cylinder when it was not at TDC. Now you said you wished that it had been at TDC - so are you saying that the valve would not have fallen far enough in to get out of the vavle guides? That it could then be pulled back out from above or atleast pushed back out with a hook in the spark plug hole? Sorry for the question again but I just have not gotten a clear answer yet.

sam

You have a sick sense of humor..

HAPPY TO CLARIFY (so no one repeats my bad experiecne)

1. Turn engine until piston is at TDC and cam lobes are vertical (I don't think there is any harm in using the camshaft bolt / timing belt to rotate the engine but the approved method is to use the crankshaft)

2. Use tool to compress spring / remove rocker arms (x4)

3. Tap on valve retainers to loosen valve keepers (use hammer and drift punch / screwdriver - two good taps on each side of the retainer, hard enough to get the spring to move a little)

4. Pressurize cylinder (make sure it is still at TDC and does not rotate)

5. Use tool to compress spring / remove keepers - magnet works great to automatically grab keepers (x4)

6. Attach strong nylon strings to valve stems (x4)

7. Depressurize cylinder

(at this point you can gently press down on each valve and it will come into contact with the piston but would not fall into cylinder even without the strings)

8. Turn the engine clockwise (slowly) allowing the valves to drop far enough into the cylider so the springs can be removed - leave strings attached except for the actual removal/installation of VSS

(In the beginning I pulled all of the valves back up and re-pressurize before removing/installing VSS but it is a waste of time and also more dangerous if the engine rotates while under pressure. Safer to leave the piston in a position where it is not under pressure and would prevent a valve from dropping.)

9. Remove VSS / Remove String / Install VSS / Install String (x4)

10. Use tool to seat VSS (x4)

11. Thread strings through springs and install the springs (x4)

12. Lift valves with springs and rotate engine back to TDC

13. Pressurize and make sure engine does not rotate and is still at TDC

14. Slide retainer down string onto valve / compress spring / remove string / install keepers (x4)

15. Depresurize cylinder / compress spring / install rocker arm


If done this way there is never a point where the valve could drop into the cylinder.



Clint