Swap in TT engine in place of NA engine

[ProwlerGT]

Ok I see these threads and other similar ones:
TT Conversion Bible
the TT conversion link thread

And all I see is talk of conversions. Are NA to TT engine swaps not talked about just because they're so easily done? or is it that they are too difficult or too much money to undertake?

Basically my questions are:
1. What are the main concerns dropping a TT engine into a NA frame?

2. Mounts fit just right? or need some weird metal work done? I know the frames are different, but dunno if the mount holes/bolts line up anyway.

3. Do you just swap the entire wiring harness all the way from the TT ECU to the entire engine bay?

4. Should the master cylinder and/or brake booster be upgraded? Calipers, rotors too?

5. Can you just buy a TT shortblock and put everything from the NA engine on top of it? Yes, I know I'm showing what I don't know. lol

6. What else?

I'm asking all this for a friend actually.

[Tricky222]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

Ok I see these threads and other similar ones:
TT Conversion Bible
the TT conversion link thread

And all I see is talk of conversions. Are NA to TT engine swaps not talked about just because they're so easily done? or is it that they are too difficult or too much money to undertake?

Basically my questions are:
1. What are the main concerns dropping a TT engine into a NA frame?

2. Mounts fit just right? or need some weird metal work done? I know the frames are different, but dunno if the mount holes/bolts line up anyway.

3. Do you just swap the entire wiring harness all the way from the TT ECU to the entire engine bay?

4. Should the master cylinder and/or brake booster be upgraded? Calipers, rotors too?

5. Can you just buy a TT shortblock and put everything from the NA engine on top of it? Yes, I know I'm showing what I don't know. lol

6. What else?

I'm asking all this for a friend actually.

DOHC blocks and heads are physically the same, so yes a tt engine will bolt right into the NA frame. All engine mounts are the same, the TT tranny mount is different as is the transmission(however FWD trannies will bolt up to TT engine blocks just fine and vice versa (as the blocks are the same)).
It would be a smart idea to swap harnesses just to make it easier as there are small differences, however you can make an NA harness work just fine on a TT engine, assuming OBD's are the same.
Brake cylinders, clutch cylinders, brake booster's are all fine to use when swapping in a tt engine. If you want more braking power then sure upgrade the brakes.
And yes you can just take a TT block and swap all the NA stuff onto it, assuming the are the same generation/OBD stuff.
TT engine swaps arent as common because people doing TT conversions are cheap and want to do it as cheap as possible. Spending an extra $500-$1500 for an engine when not absolutely necessary ussually doesnt fit into people's budgets.

[VRFury]

Actually, heads are NOT the same. Neither are rotating assembly's. The block is (I believe) similar apart from oil squirters. The pistons are different, rods are different, the heads are different. There's more, but I haven't done one, so I don't know all the quirks and pitfalls. However, I think alot of people have done the swaps, just not too many write-ups. One I can think of off-hand is Richard-screen name Barefoot. He's gone from na dohc to awd 16g's and such. I will be doing one (or rather finishig one) soon, but haven't started on that project yet. BTW, if I'm correct, its Rolland, right? Applebees3/s FTW lol! Shoot me a pm and let me know how ya been. And then again, if I'm wrong, you'll read this post with a WTF look on your face

[Stegmann]

@ Tricky222

You said all engine mounts are the same - but I thought the front engine mount has a lower profile for the TT motor due to the turbo on the front?

[Tricky222]

Originally Posted by VRFury

Actually, heads are NOT the same. Neither are rotating assembly's. The block is (I believe) similar apart from oil squirters. The pistons are different, rods are different, the heads are different. There's more, but I haven't done one, so I don't know all the quirks and pitfalls. However, I think alot of people have done the swaps, just not too many write-ups. One I can think of off-hand is Richard-screen name Barefoot. He's gone from na dohc to awd 16g's and such. I will be doing one (or rather finishig one) soon, but haven't started on that project yet. BTW, if I'm correct, its Rolland, right? Applebees3/s FTW lol! Shoot me a pm and let me know how ya been. And then again, if I'm wrong, you'll read this post with a WTF look on your face

The block and heads are physically the same, as in how the bolt up. As in NA heads will bolt up to a TT block and the other way around. Yes there are differences internally between the blocks and heads. Rods are the same, pistons are different due to different CR's between the two, and obviously the TT heads flow more than NA, none of which did i deny. However, in relation to his answer, yes the will physically bolt up with each other...

Originally Posted by Stegmann

@ Tricky222

You said all engine mounts are the same - but I thought the front engine mount has a lower profile for the TT motor due to the turbo on the front?

Well the bracket that mounts up to the engine is different yes, but the motor mount itself is the same. Sorry should've specified.

[ProwlerGT]

Originally Posted by VRFury

Actually, heads are NOT the same. Neither are rotating assembly's. The block is (I believe) similar apart from oil squirters. The pistons are different, rods are different, the heads are different. There's more, but I haven't done one, so I don't know all the quirks and pitfalls. However, I think alot of people have done the swaps, just not too many write-ups. One I can think of off-hand is Richard-screen name Barefoot. He's gone from na dohc to awd 16g's and such. I will be doing one (or rather finishig one) soon, but haven't started on that project yet. BTW, if I'm correct, its Rolland, right? Applebees3/s FTW lol! Shoot me a pm and let me know how ya been. And then again, if I'm wrong, you'll read this post with a WTF look on your face

PM sent. LOL.

[ProwlerGT]

Originally Posted by Tricky222

The block and heads are physically the same, as in how the bolt up. As in NA heads will bolt up to a TT block and the other way around. Yes there are differences internally between the blocks and heads. Rods are the same, pistons are different due to different CR's between the two, and obviously the TT heads flow more than NA, none of which did i deny. However, in relation to his answer, yes the will physically bolt up with each other...

Well the bracket that mounts up to the engine is different yes, but the motor mount itself is the same. Sorry should've specified.

So it is only the pistons and the flow passages in the heads that are responsible for the compression differences in the two engines - otherwise the engines are the same (aside from the engine mount bracket too)?

LOL - Sorry, but which of you is right? One says rods are different vs same etc... for other parts too? HUHH?

Rotating assemblies? Meaning pulleys or what else?

I don't know.... perhaps this is from inexperience, but it would seem to me swapping in an already ready to go TT engine would be a hell of a lot easier/cheaper than modifying and upgrading every single part on an NA engine to make it a TT converted. From what I've read the consensus pretty much is that you are better off just buying a stock VR4 and modding it vs converting to a TT from NA due to cost/labor.

[Tricky222]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

So it is only the pistons and the flow passages in the heads that are responsible for the compression differences in the two engines - otherwise the engines are the same (aside from the engine mount bracket too)?

LOL - Sorry, but which of you is right? One says rods are different vs same etc... for other parts too? HUHH?

Rotating assemblies? Meaning pulleys or what else?

I don't know.... perhaps this is from inexperience, but it would seem to me swapping in an already ready to go TT engine would be a hell of a lot easier/cheaper than modifying and upgrading every single part on an NA engine to make it a TT converted. From what I've read the consensus pretty much is that you are better off just buying a stock VR4 and modding it vs converting to a TT from NA due to cost/labor.

It would be cheaper to just buy all the tt conversion stuff and use your current engine than buying a different engine and then all the tt stuff with it... Sure it'd be easier to just swap in a full TT engine, but its more expensive bc of the cost of the new engine.
Do a search for block differences or tt versus na block.
There are more differences than the ones i listed.
All NA's are 2 bolt, 93+ TT's are 4 bolt
TT's have oil squirters
91-92 have cast cranks, 93+ have forged, regardless of tt or na
Rods are the same
TT has 8:1 pistons, NA 10:1 (which account for CR differences)
TT heads flow better than NA ones
TT cams are different than NA
Valves and associated hardware are the same
Front mount bracket is different on a TT
Water housing on TT has coolant ports for the turbos, however both bolt up the same.

[Venom13132]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

Basically my questions are:
1. What are the main concerns dropping a TT engine into a NA frame?

no conserns at all

2. Mounts fit just right? or need some weird metal work done? I know the frames are different, but dunno if the mount holes/bolts line up anyway.

All the mounts work the same. Transmissions bolt right up. The only thing is for the FWD transmission you have to shave the nub off the crank shaft for the flywheel to fit.

3. Do you just swap the entire wiring harness all the way from the TT ECU to the entire engine bay?

yes. its basically like doing the TT conversion after you get the TT long or short block in there, i suggest long block.

4. Should the master cylinder and/or brake booster be upgraded? Calipers, rotors too?

not necessary on any of those. Its always fun to replace your hub assemblys, calipers, and rotors with TT 4 piston big breaks thought.

5. Can you just buy a TT shortblock and put everything from the NA engine on top of it? Yes, I know I'm showing what I don't know. lol

pretty much everything bolts up the same. These engines are basically identical besides the TT parts

6. What else?

send me a pm or instant message if you have any questions about something you are about to buy and i will steer you in the right direction. I have put a tt engine in an NA before and I am actually doing it right now on my blue stealth.

[rush6432]

Originally Posted by VRFury

Actually, heads are NOT the same. Neither are rotating assembly's. The block is (I believe) similar apart from oil squirters. The pistons are different, rods are different, the heads are different. There's more, but I haven't done one, so I don't know all the quirks and pitfalls. However, I think alot of people have done the swaps, just not too many write-ups. One I can think of off-hand is Richard-screen name Barefoot. He's gone from na dohc to awd 16g's and such. I will be doing one (or rather finishig one) soon, but haven't started on that project yet. BTW, if I'm correct, its Rolland, right? Applebees3/s FTW lol! Shoot me a pm and let me know how ya been. And then again, if I'm wrong, you'll read this post with a WTF look on your face

rods are all the same........... blocks are the same minus oil squirters. cranks seem to be the same as well from what i recall. heads are physically the same as far as bolting them on.