SDS SOHC Technical Issues

[ldcarson]

Hi Gang - Started a new thread for us to use to post any questions we might have of each other as we go through our installs. I've asked Spawn to post some of his info as well. Hopefully Ripps will send the kits out soonest and we can get started! Good luck to everyone.

[ldcarson]

Anyone know if our Platfor can handle 9psi (Pully) without significan upgrades?

Still waiting on e-mail from Spawn on SAFC settings.

Jason, I think u had a question about EGT? But can't remember.

[~~the~links~~]

Originally Posted by ldcarson

Anyone know if our Platfor can handle 9psi (Pully) without significan upgrades?

Still waiting on e-mail from Spawn on SAFC settings.

Jason, I think u had a question about EGT? But can't remember.

See my post here: sohc 6g72 3.0l -> sohc 6g74 3.5l swap

You can do 9psi, like I was, but you need to have your alky/water-injection system installed BEFORE running it really hard or putting it on the dyno...

[ldcarson]

Am curious if anyone has input to the following? Since these units (SDS) run at 5-6 psi, with the possibility of going 9-12 in the future, would a alki/water injection be worth the investment or something to wait on for now?

[lesterje]

I think that it would be worth while to invest in alki/water but I did see a couple of new items on RIPP:

Motor mount, RIPP Boost cooler, SDS over drive pulley (9psi), RIPP Over Drive Crank Pulley (11psi).

I would like to find a write up on this RIPP Boost cooler. Has anyone heard anything on this?

[lesterje]

I found this.

Boost Cooler Benefits:

•Greatly reduced EGT’s. Decreases of 250 degrees F are common using a 50/50% Methanol /Water mix. This prevents the usual problems associated with high exhaust car temperatures - rings sticking, holed pistons, etc.

•Low cost power - where else can you get HP for $500 along with reduced EGTs.

•Greatly increased air charge densities - 3-5 psig boost increases are common.

1. Do I need an Intercooler with Water/Methanol injection?

Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications. Most air-to-air intercoolers are only 50-65% efficient. That means for example, that with 11psi boost and its 120°f air charge temperature increase, an intercooler reduces the air charge temperature only 60 degrees. Also, an intercooler will reduce boost 2 - 4 psi. on average.

2. Why not use a windshield washer pump?

Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.

3. Why methanol?

Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonate than ethanol or isopropanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power if used as a straight fuel.

Although most windshield washer fluids contain some glycol and detergent, most fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent Boost Cooler®. Try to find one that indicates contains methanol.

The best place to find a perfect mix would be in a window washing solution manufactured by Prestone: Prestone “De-icer 32below” is a perfect blend of methanol and water.

4. How much Water/Methanol and can I use windshield washer fluid?

To prevent detonation, the ratio of Water/Methanol to gasoline is roughly 1 to 5 in gasoline applications. In practice, you give it as much water / methanol as it takes to eliminate detonation without quenching combustion. The amount depends on the onset RPM of injection, the octane of the gasoline, fuel/air ratio, cylinder head type, even the weather conditions. Your engine is actually pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, you will know its too much when the engine misses and loses power.

5. Where can I purchase Methanol?

Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like Heat are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers. If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% Methanol and 58% water. Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and hiperfuels.com.

6. How long will a tank (2qts.) last?

In high boost/high horsepower application, a full blast 1/4 mile run will utilize as much as 1/8 tank. A larger tank should be considered if over 9psi boost is utilized in road racing where a tank can be used in as few as 6 - 2 mile/ full tilt laps. Under normal street use in a 400HP SDS powered Mitsubishi Eclipse V6, will usually lasts about 500 miles. Two reservoirs can be used for 1-gal total capacity if desired.

7. At what boost level do I introduce Water/Methanol?

Centrifugal superchargers: Generally, at 50% of peak boost the recommended quantity should be introduced. Injection should occur at or near peak boost to avoid combustion quench since peak boost occurs so fast.

8. What ratio of Water/Methanol is recommended?

A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and controlling cylinder temperature. This includes diesel applications where water conditions the combustion of the methanol so combustion timing isnt affected.

9. Many recommend NGK Copper core spark plugs in boosted applications. Will these work also with water/methanol injection?

NGK Copper core spark plugs are highly recommended with the RIPP Boost Cooler. NGK Copper cores, with their low firing thresholds and intense spark allow for larger quantities to be injected sooner without misfiring. This allows for more cooling of the intake air. If you have a misfiring problem, nine times out of ten, NGK Copper core will clear it up.

10. Will water/methanol harm my engine?

In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.

[Mikes95RT]

Before you spend the money on this kit you should check into building one on your own. It can be built for about $200-$250. I have been running one I built for about 2 years. My pump makes 60psi but there is something you need to understand when buying a pump. The pumps are made to flow through a 3/8" hose and into a sprayer for garden type use. They will hold 60 psi with a large amount of flow. When you use it for a alky kit and you are using misting nozzles you are running through a final hole the size of a pin. 60 psi meeting that type of restriction will easily atomize. It's like running a open garden hose. The water may travel a few ft. from the nozzle. But you know what happens when you put your thumb over the end and block the opening. The initial presure isn't changed but the effect is changed as you have the volume trying to force its way through the smaller opening. If you can find a 100psi pump great if not then the 60psi pump works great.

I know lightweight is making a kit for about $250.00 and you can see what it takes to make a kit a www.turbomirage.com It's simple and its really cheap H.P. I have my hobbs valve so the alky starts at 6psi and sprays until the boost is below that. I still only go through about 1 reservoir per gas fill up and I'm using my stock wiper reservoir.I run 12-13psi daily on 10:1

[ldcarson]

This is great information Guys thanks. I also saw where Ripps has added teh 9si tebsioners and 12PSI pulleys. Thats why I was wondering if I should just go ahead and purchase a kit (either from Ripps or lightweight?) I know the SDS will run fine as it does for Spawn at 5-6psi, but am not so sure with higher boost on our engines. link just lost his engine on a dyno run, with his knight charger, I think he was at 9 psi..Anyway, i think I am going to go ahead and get the kit. just one question...where are teh nozzels actually going, i.e. where does it spray?( I know...I am a noob when it comes to this stuff) I just want to make sure Its done right the first time.

[lesterje]

Thanks for the info mike. Carson, I know the kits have not been shipped out yet so if you want to add somehting with the kit, now is the idea time. I went through the RIPP forum and couldn't find instructions for installation of the RIPP boost cooler but the instructions are obviously included if you buy it. I think I might get this and the 9 psi pulley. Getting the 11 psi pulley would probably be pushing it at this point.

[~~the~links~~]

DEFINITELY BUY THE WATER INJECTION KIT!

I lost my engine because I didn't have it installed yet and was using a 9psi pulley on the dyno. Ouch. Since our cars have no intercoolers like the TT guys, our intake charge temps to too hot for safety.