Theoretical HP charts - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

SHiVeR-91VR4 · 08-15-2005, 01:31 PM

boost rpm cfm hp torque awhp
0 2000 105 78.75 206.79 63
10 3000 270 202.5 354.51 162
25 4000 585 438.75 576.078 351
30 5000 825 618.75 649.93 495
30 6000 990 742.5 649.93 594
30 7000 1155 866.25 649.93 693
30 8000 1318 988.5 648.95 790.8
30 9000 1445 1083.75 632.42 867

100% VE.
Calculated that based on stealth 316's calculators, my own CFM -> HP calc (75% *CFM = HP, and its very close) and driveline loss (20% for awd).

Comparing this to the supras, it is almost exactly what they see with 30psi.

Usually their mods are:

AEM
272's
BIG turbo
lots of fuel
FMIC (3-4 row greddy)

stock displacement.

this is where we SHOULD be.

DR-1000's should easily get us this, as well as any turbo that can hold 30psi up to 8000 or 9000 RPMs. EVO III's should get us to 8000 rpms, you will need 20G's for 9000 and 30psi.

The calcs all seemed to come out to EXACTLY what the supra guys see at the rear wheels with these kind of mods. My buddy just dyno'd 809 rwhp at 30psi with the above mods.

Any thoughts/reasons why the above listed turbos should not get us there? Not many people run this many mods yet, but with 30psi this is what you should see.

SHiVeR-91VR4 · 08-15-2005, 01:58 PM

Also, just for some numbers for giggles.

Max theoretical HP at 20psi at 7000 rpm with 100%VE is ~540awhp and max theoretical HP at 25psi at 7000rpm with 100%VE is ~600awhp.

You can see how it goes up to 690 awhp with 30psi.

but if your turbos can support it, you really need to eek out that extra 2,000 rpm if they can flow that much.

8000 rpm and 20psi will net ~600awhp and 8000 rpm and 25psi is good for ~720 awhp.

9000 rpm adds on about another 100awhp for each level of boost in 5psi increments.

doctorstupid · 08-15-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiVeR-91VR4

Any thoughts/reasons why the above listed turbos should not get us there?

Yes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHiVeR-91VR4

Not many people run this many mods yet

SHiVeR-91VR4 · 08-17-2005, 07:19 AM

This is at regular room temperature for the airflow etc numbers.

just round about numbers, but they are close enough.

Basically any 3L engine can produce these, the same calcs would apply to the supra. It's the maximum energy produced by the amount of air/fuel at that point in time.

real world numbers should be a bit lower, but not by much. A 3L supra dyno chart is almost dead on with these results.

We just need more people that run 30psi and have turbos that can flow the air demand of the engine at that RPM. This is why all the guys with 20G's out there have hit such high numbers. EVO III's shoudl be good for 30psi at 7000 rpm, but they will fall short at 9000 rpm and not produce 30psi.

Kibwe Walker · 08-17-2005, 08:25 AM

I say this every time I hear someone compare a supra running an SP, gt, or T (pick a number) big single turbo on a supra @ 30 or more psi to a 3s with tdo4's running 20 psi.

There is nothing wrong with this platform that can't be worked out. Dead weight can be removed, and as far as I know boost for boost we have everyone beat and a flat tq curve to go with it.

I wasn't surprised to see what Drag pro did. I won't be surprised when Hillbilly and Ray kick up some more numbers at high boost with a cam and heads. Nothing shocking. Just air, fuel, and combustion. The more air, the more fuel, the more combustion, and that ends up somewhere as MORE HP.

91Stealthrt2 · 08-17-2005, 02:42 PM

sounds easy enough

mjannusch · 08-17-2005, 08:56 PM

I'm surprised the "timing instead of boost" people haven't jumped on this thread already.

I think your chart looks about right... Cams will be a necessity to get those predicted top-end numbers though.

How about calc'ing out another chart up to 35 psi for DR-1200 or comparable?

SHiVeR-91VR4 · 08-17-2005, 09:18 PM

boost rpm cfm hp torque awhp
0 2000 105 78.75 206.7975 63
10 3000 270 202.5 354.51 162
25 4000 585 438.75 576.07875 351
35 5000 927 695.25 730.2906 556.2
35 6000 1112 834 730.028 667.2
35 7000 1297 972.75 729.8404286 778.2
35 8000 1483 1112.25 730.192125 889.8
35 9000 1668 1251 730.028 1000.8

boost rpm cfm hp torque awhp
0 2000 105 78.75 206.7975 63
10 3000 270 202.5 354.51 162
25 4000 585 438.75 576.07875 351
35 5000 927 695.25 730.2906 556.2
40 6000 1271 953.25 834.4115 762.6
40 7000 1483 1112.25 834.5052857 889.8
40 8000 1695 1271.25 834.575625 1017
40 9000 1907 1430.25 834.6303333 1144.2

And again, numbers are dead on, or VERY close to what supra guys see at 35+ psi.

SHiVeR-91VR4 · 08-17-2005, 09:21 PM

Really it all comes down to, there is no replacement for displacement.

Switch the 40psi number to 3.5L like the stroker kit and:
1344 awhp

switch 40psi number to 3.7L and you get:
1411 awhp

ALL the platforms are the SAME for pretty much the same litre. There is no reason we shouldn't make the numbers they do. Well, the only reason is where do we stop when we start breaking stock parts. Obviously for 3.5L youre going to have aftermarket internals.

08-15-2005, 01:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
SHiVeR-91VR4 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ohio Drives: 99 VR4 Trader Rating: (88)	Theoretical HP charts boost rpm cfm hp torque awhp 0 2000 105 78.75 206.79 63 10 3000 270 202.5 354.51 162 25 4000 585 438.75 576.078 351 30 5000 825 618.75 649.93 495 30 6000 990 742.5 649.93 594 30 7000 1155 866.25 649.93 693 30 8000 1318 988.5 648.95 790.8 30 9000 1445 1083.75 632.42 867 100% VE. Calculated that based on stealth 316's calculators, my own CFM -> HP calc (75% *CFM = HP, and its very close) and driveline loss (20% for awd). Comparing this to the supras, it is almost exactly what they see with 30psi. Usually their mods are: AEM 272's BIG turbo lots of fuel FMIC (3-4 row greddy) stock displacement. this is where we SHOULD be. DR-1000's should easily get us this, as well as any turbo that can hold 30psi up to 8000 or 9000 RPMs. EVO III's should get us to 8000 rpms, you will need 20G's for 9000 and 30psi. The calcs all seemed to come out to EXACTLY what the supra guys see at the rear wheels with these kind of mods. My buddy just dyno'd 809 rwhp at 30psi with the above mods. Any thoughts/reasons why the above listed turbos should not get us there? Not many people run this many mods yet, but with 30psi this is what you should see. __________________ Need a datalogger? http://automotive.miragecorp.com Few parts left! (stock forged rods & pistons, EGT sensor, Driver motor mount)

08-15-2005, 01:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
SHiVeR-91VR4 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ohio Drives: 99 VR4 Trader Rating: (88)	Re: Theoretical HP charts Also, just for some numbers for giggles. Max theoretical HP at 20psi at 7000 rpm with 100%VE is ~540awhp and max theoretical HP at 25psi at 7000rpm with 100%VE is ~600awhp. You can see how it goes up to 690 awhp with 30psi. but if your turbos can support it, you really need to eek out that extra 2,000 rpm if they can flow that much. 8000 rpm and 20psi will net ~600awhp and 8000 rpm and 25psi is good for ~720 awhp. 9000 rpm adds on about another 100awhp for each level of boost in 5psi increments.

08-17-2005, 07:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
SHiVeR-91VR4 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ohio Drives: 99 VR4 Trader Rating: (88)	Re: Theoretical HP charts This is at regular room temperature for the airflow etc numbers. just round about numbers, but they are close enough. Basically any 3L engine can produce these, the same calcs would apply to the supra. It's the maximum energy produced by the amount of air/fuel at that point in time. real world numbers should be a bit lower, but not by much. A 3L supra dyno chart is almost dead on with these results. We just need more people that run 30psi and have turbos that can flow the air demand of the engine at that RPM. This is why all the guys with 20G's out there have hit such high numbers. EVO III's shoudl be good for 30psi at 7000 rpm, but they will fall short at 9000 rpm and not produce 30psi.

08-17-2005, 08:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kibwe Walker Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville Drives: 93 RT/tt Trader Rating: (2)	Re: Theoretical HP charts I say this every time I hear someone compare a supra running an SP, gt, or T (pick a number) big single turbo on a supra @ 30 or more psi to a 3s with tdo4's running 20 psi. There is nothing wrong with this platform that can't be worked out. Dead weight can be removed, and as far as I know boost for boost we have everyone beat and a flat tq curve to go with it. I wasn't surprised to see what Drag pro did. I won't be surprised when Hillbilly and Ray kick up some more numbers at high boost with a cam and heads. Nothing shocking. Just air, fuel, and combustion. The more air, the more fuel, the more combustion, and that ends up somewhere as MORE HP. __________________ His - Red 93 RT/tt Mods: Hallman's MBC @ 16 psi, turbo XS type H BOV, stillen dp, custom exhaust, Spec stage 2 clutch, RPS FW, 3sx lightweight crank pulley, BCP7RES-11 @ .030 gap, autometer gauges, slightly gutted mas, dsm SMIC's, ACPT 1 piece CFDS, Tein S springs, pte 580 inj's, safc neo/SITC, 13t's, hotwired walbro, maximal performance solid motor mounts, DR plenum spacer. Hers - BPU Green 94 vr4

08-17-2005, 02:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
91Stealthrt2 needs boost Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lacey, WA Trader Rating: (10)	Re: Theoretical HP charts sounds easy enough __________________ 1 of 2 WA members at NG06!!!!! 2nd place stock AWD autox(not my car; first time driving a TT) 91 R/T Mods: SCE 5mm spacers, intrax, rear sway bar, rear camber/toe arms, tp, intake, 18x9.5" fn01rc's in hyperblack with 265/35 Yokohama AVS sports, 2gTT brakes, SS lines, ek2 spacer and goodies, poly motor mouts, Seattle roller-bearing shifter!, Accel wires,'99 lifters, custom stereo, yellowtop, 192K+ miles, m505 w/MMCd, 3500lbs w/driver, and a badass daily driver! Need to install: ss clutch line, 2g rear brakes, BT ground wires. Need: CASH, windshield, carpet, antenna, 5 point strut bar New DD- 91 base stealth- 90k miles, blue, vr4 wheels. NEEDS LOWERED! Getting r/t body coversion and painted...

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08-17-2005, 08:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
mjannusch Pro xfercase destroyer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hudson, WI Drives: 2005 Toyota Prius Trader Rating: (20)	Re: Theoretical HP charts I'm surprised the "timing instead of boost" people haven't jumped on this thread already. I think your chart looks about right... Cams will be a necessity to get those predicted top-end numbers though. How about calc'ing out another chart up to 35 psi for DR-1200 or comparable? __________________ -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 (11.838@117.56) '93 3000GT VR4 (Project for 2009) '91 3000GT VR4 (Only a shell of its former self)

08-17-2005, 09:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
SHiVeR-91VR4 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ohio Drives: 99 VR4 Trader Rating: (88)	Re: Theoretical HP charts boost rpm cfm hp torque awhp 0 2000 105 78.75 206.7975 63 10 3000 270 202.5 354.51 162 25 4000 585 438.75 576.07875 351 35 5000 927 695.25 730.2906 556.2 35 6000 1112 834 730.028 667.2 35 7000 1297 972.75 729.8404286 778.2 35 8000 1483 1112.25 730.192125 889.8 35 9000 1668 1251 730.028 1000.8 boost rpm cfm hp torque awhp 0 2000 105 78.75 206.7975 63 10 3000 270 202.5 354.51 162 25 4000 585 438.75 576.07875 351 35 5000 927 695.25 730.2906 556.2 40 6000 1271 953.25 834.4115 762.6 40 7000 1483 1112.25 834.5052857 889.8 40 8000 1695 1271.25 834.575625 1017 40 9000 1907 1430.25 834.6303333 1144.2 And again, numbers are dead on, or VERY close to what supra guys see at 35+ psi.

08-17-2005, 09:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
SHiVeR-91VR4 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ohio Drives: 99 VR4 Trader Rating: (88)	Re: Theoretical HP charts Really it all comes down to, there is no replacement for displacement. Switch the 40psi number to 3.5L like the stroker kit and: 1344 awhp switch 40psi number to 3.7L and you get: 1411 awhp ALL the platforms are the SAME for pretty much the same litre. There is no reason we shouldn't make the numbers they do. Well, the only reason is where do we stop when we start breaking stock parts. Obviously for 3.5L youre going to have aftermarket internals.