Getting the most out of your Apexi S-AFC= Stock MAF honeycomb removal

[jeff97vr4]

This is a quote from the thread "just finished installing 450 CC injectors and takign otu the honeycombs", http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/sho...threadid=74467 , dated 04-18-2002 08:27 PM.

Originally posted by Innovator


I did just purchase a Mustang 4WD dyno for my second shop, and I will post my HP figures after it gets installed. One thing for sure, when I tune a car on my dyno, I will allot enough time on it, to say that I did a proper and thorough job. I will not spend 20 minutes and say, ”see ya”, so to speak.

I don't doubt that you can do a better job on a dyno (which is why I bought one), but you give it enough time, you need the right equipment, and a very powerful fan or fans to keep the intercoolers working normally. Also a wide band o2 sensor is a must, which I used BTW when I tuned my own car. That’s how I came up with 880 to .900. My OE sensors coincide almost exactly, BTW. . I use EGT’s anyway, for a more definitive safety measure. I have always said this was the best way at WOT.

Removing the honeycombs and using an AFC or AFR to adjust the A/F is not new. You have apparently been using a wideband for over a year from this reply and also have your own dyno. You have certainly changed your adamant position that anything over 0.9 volts is too rich. Maybe we should wait for a few weeks and see what "new" break throughs have been discovered.

Some people have reported problems with removing the honeycombs after a period of time, not only IPO. Who knows for sure if the pressure sensor in the Karmen Vortex Generator does get overloaded by this mod and in fact does cause a failure of the pressure sensor over extended use. And maybe it doesn't happen to every one, but just some percentage. I suspect that the honeycomb parts are expensive to make and if they could have been eliminated, they wouldn't be there.

Jeff

[Innovator]

Originally posted by jeff97vr4
This is a quote from the thread "just finished installing 450 CC injectors and takign otu the honeycombs", http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/sho...threadid=74467 , dated 04-18-2002 08:27 PM.



Removing the honeycombs and using an AFC or AFR to adjust the A/F is not new. You have apparently been using a wideband for over a year from this reply and also have your own dyno. You have certainly changed your adamant position that anything over 0.9 volts is too rich. Maybe we should wait for a few weeks and see what "new" break throughs have been discovered.

Some people have reported problems with removing the honeycombs after a period of time, not only IPO. Who knows for sure if the pressure sensor in the Karmen Vortex Generator does get overloaded by this mod and in fact does cause a failure of the pressure sensor over extended use. And maybe it doesn't happen to every one, but just some percentage. I suspect that the honeycomb parts are expensive to make and if they could have been eliminated, they wouldn't be there.

Jeff

Hey Jeff, lose the sarcasim.

First of all, anything over .9 is too rich. A 12:1 A/F correlates to more like a .875 o2 reading on my 02's, keeping in mind that the stock 02 is useless as an accurate way to measure A/F. My views haven't changed, but they have become more refined in their logic.

I never did get the Mustang dyno, as I haven't yet moved into my new shop yet. My deal with the city was delayed by over a year.

I have recently used my friends Mustang dyno however, and my posted results were obtained on his dyno. I also *just* installed the FJO on my own car. I had it, but didn't have it installed. I have used it on my customers car many times in the past.

As for you comment about overloading the sensor

By removing the honeycombs, you reduce the air going past the sensor, so how the hell would you overload it in that senerio?

The bulk of the air now goes through the path of least resistance, which lowers the HZ signal coming out of the MAF.

[Bluv69k]

innovator,
I have a pocketlogger and all other neccesary tuning tools. No sweat. Thinking of giving it a try. So let me get this right
tap out side and bottom honeycomb
richen my settings roughly 10%
base timing is set to 5 right?
1000rpms should be +15? any other rpm's?
and just adjust my low settings so 02's cycle?

[Bluv69k]

PS, CAN EVERYONE PLEASE STOP BITCHING. If you don't want to do it then don't. But don't ruin an good thread with bitching. What works for some may not work for all. Thats all that needs to be said.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by Bluv69k
innovator,
I have a pocketlogger and all other neccesary tuning tools. No sweat. Thinking of giving it a try. So let me get this right
tap out side and bottom honeycomb
richen my settings roughly 10%
base timing is set to 5 right?
1000rpms should be +15? any other rpm's?
and just adjust my low settings so 02's cycle?

1000 RPM lo setting should be +15 at the most with 550 injectors and a hotwired FP. However, if you haven't modded the FP or it's wiring, then maybe even more + correction would be needed at idle and slightly above. Slowly raise the correction until the o2 cycle. Slowly. When they just begin to cyle, go another 10% more positive. That should put the LTFT at the propper level.

The car must be up to normal operating temp for this...

[Bluv69k]

innovator, check my sig. Hotwired boost a pump with denso pump and e2k rail mod. I have full 60mm apexi set up including boost, egt, Fp, op, and water temp. Also pocket logger with newest version to veiw front and rear 02. I got it all. I am also running 640cc inj!

[Import Power]

Originally posted by Bluv69k
PS, CAN EVERYONE PLEASE STOP BITCHING. If you don't want to do it then don't. But don't ruin an good thread with bitching. What works for some may not work for all. Thats all that needs to be said.

It is not bitching. It's information sharing. MANY have had driveability issues after honeycomb removal and have had all the odd things dissapear after reinstalling them. I have 6 times now.

If you choose to blindly accept only one persons experiences and ignore the many others because you feel it would benefit you most to do so...then go right ahead......Otherwise take in ALL the available information, and move forward from there.

[Innovator]

Well, with 640 injectors, you probably won't need as much positive correction at idle, and you will need more neg correction on high settings. I have a 550 cc setup.

Just be careful. I don't know what you should have your AFC set at

Either way, you will need less neg correction than before the modded MAF, and that can only be a good thing.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by Imp Pwr Online


It is not bitching. It's information sharing. MANY have had driveability issues after honeycomb removal and have had all the odd things dissapear after reinstalling them. I have 6 times now.

If you choose to blindly accept only one persons experiences and ignore the many others because you feel it would benefit you most to do so...then go right ahead......Otherwise take in ALL the available information, and move forward from there.

I've already explained the method of getting the car to run correctly after this mod. Give others the opportunity to give it a chance before you get them all nervous about trying it.

I may be one person, but this is what I do for a living. So, as I said earlier, I have a clue.

[Bluv69k]

ipo, sorry if I had the wrong idea. I just think it may work for some and others not. Like the maft, Tugvr4 is the only vr4 I have seen that it runs good with. I will give it a try and if I have trouble I will just reinstall them.