E85 Powered VR4?

[ABQTT]

Just a thought, I read about fifteen pages back (which was as far as my eyes would let me read before I had to give in) that Ethanol loves high compression motors, and with the added octane you can push a moderate amount of boost without detonation. I am in the process of picking up a new project car and had a thought... Would a turbo'd N/A motor provide any sort of advantage over our lower compression TT set-ups, or would they even be able to handle it? Mind you this is a pure E85 set-up and using a mild turbo, 13g most likely. P.S. I'm a firefighter so I'm used to flames

[ver fer]

I won't flame you, in fact I had the money I would build one.

Chris, another advantage of ethanol is it also burns much faster so less timing is needed. I had a graph of flame speed vs. afr for e-85 and gas.

I'll try to post it if I can find it. I don't know what kind of gas they used to compare with though.

[vr4_rider]

hey ver fer...

you have 13Ts and 680s...what are your IDC with e85?

I am on evo 560 on my 13Ts and I hit 87 IDC at about 15psi at stock fuel pressure...

I heard 680s might be too small?

[Import Power]

Originally Posted by ver fer

I won't flame you, in fact I had the money I would build one.

Chris, another advantage of ethanol is it also burns much faster so less timing is needed. I had a graph of flame speed vs. afr for e-85 and gas.

I'll try to post it if I can find it. I don't know what kind of gas they used to compare with though.

check it
Spark Advance vs. Fuel Efficiency & Gasoline vs. E85

Considering ethanol and likewise E85 has a faster flame speed than gasoline, the peak pressure in the cylinder would build faster and it stands to reason that all else being equal, E85 would like the spark to occur slightly closer to TDC (ie less advance) when compared to gasoline. The results showed about 5 degrees less advance in this case was optimal.

In summary, this test showed that E85 does indeed like slightly less timing for optimal efficiency when compared to gasoline. Additionally, in either case (E85 or gasoline) it is better to have slightly more advance than optimal compared to slightly less advance. Efficiency is lost rather rapidly with too little advance and affected only slightly with too much advance. Although efficiency gains can be realized by slightly reducing the timing advance when running E85, the effect is likely to be rather small - probably a gain of <0.5% and most surely <1%. In my specific case, given an optimal gasoline advance of ~43 deg BTDC to an optimal E85 advance of ~37 deg BTDC would net approximately 0.63% efficiency gain (ie 25mpg to 25.16mpg)

[Erron Spalsbury]

This may off topic to the current discussion, but thought I would share. I've ran e85 for over 2 years with a mostly stock fuel system. Upgraded pump, but lines, tank, filter, and rails were all stock. I upgraded the entire fuel system over the last month so it gave me a real insite to the deterioration properties of the e85 being in our cars. I can say without a doubt now, that our cars can take it. The race car is a 92 and I looked into the tank, cut out all the stock fuel lines and had a real good look at the rails and filter. I couldn't find anything at all that shows any corrosion. No rust in the tank, no particulates in the filter of steel or aluminum.

Erron S.

[Alan92RTTT]

Erron, what size were/are you injectors and what if any correction factor were you using?

[Erron Spalsbury]

Originally Posted by Alan92RTTT

Erron, what size were/are you injectors and what if any correction factor were you using?

1000cc, no correction.

[Culzephyr]

I bought the car when I wasn't married and now I am so I don't have a lot of spending money. We have a budget and extra money for the VR-4 wasn't part of it.

I need a not too expensive AFC that will allow me to switch back and forth between Pri Gas and E-85.

Is this a decent AFC Apexi NEO AFC Air Fuel Controller 401-A917
I found this one on e-bay. the bid has 4 days left but I could afford it if it doesn't go up to much.

Nick

Originally Posted by Monster Stealth

So you are running 450 injectors and no AFC?? You need to stop driving the car if this is the case until you can get one installed. Change your oil asap as well. You are running insanely rich and I am surprised you have not spun a bearing or thrashed your engine already. If i misread your post and your are not, then ignore me . I would look into either a SAFC2, MAPECU, Greddy Emanage, or the MAF Translator PRO. SAFC2 being the simplest of all of them. A single hotwired walbro will be plenty big to supply enough fuel to those injectors. I assume you are staying with 9b's?

[MustGoFaster]

DO NOT BUY A SAFC NEO! There is a big thread somewhere around here with all the details as to why not.

[Monster Stealth]

I would not get the NEO. Look into the SAFC2. If you want to run dual maps to switch back and forth on the fly, look into the emanage blue or MAPECU. Again, if you are running 450cc injectors and no fuel control do not drive your car anymore, or you will have even less money.

Originally Posted by Culzephyr

I bought the car when I wasn't married and now I am so I don't have a lot of spending money. We have a budget and extra money for the VR-4 wasn't part of it.

I need a not too expensive AFC that will allow me to switch back and forth between Pri Gas and E-85.

Is this a decent AFC Apexi NEO AFC Air Fuel Controller 401-A917
I found this one on e-bay. the bid has 4 days left but I could afford it if it doesn't go up to much.

Nick