E85 Powered VR4?

[DCIV]

Originally Posted by dlabonte

E-85 is a dead end street. You have to run 1/3 more fuel to get the same power as gasoline. Not enough acres in this country to replace fossil fuel with E-85, let alone requiring 1/3 more volume.

All you need is a couple of bad drought years in a row and we will be importing corn from China. Hmmm Lead based corn from China, then you could get rid of your catalytic converter once and for all again.

I love when venders hang themselfs, I find it funny. Let me put it this way, Dont post unless your going to help.

Coop

[Import Power]

Originally Posted by dlabonte

Depends on the type of racing you do. 30% more fuel means larger fuel cell and more weight. For drag racing I would agree with you, road course or circle track lots of peole will care.

you are right...no one other than drag racers would use it. And you are right, it's ONLY made from corn in the US.....

American Le Mans Series :: World Class
Ethanol Update
Corvette Racing used cellulosic E85R ethanol racing fuel for the first time in the preceding ALMS race in St. Petersburg, Fla. The cellulosic ethanol used by Corvette Racing is made from waste wood – dead trees, undergrowth, broken branches, and bark – collected in South Dakota's Black Hills National Forest to reduce the risk of wildfire. The waste wood is converted to cellulosic ethanol at a pilot plant in Upton, Wyo., and supplied to Corvette Racing by the Ethanol Promotion and Information Council (EPIC).

"From a performance standpoint, the data we collected on the track in St. Petersburg matched up perfectly with our dynamometer tests," said Corvette Racing program manager Doug Fehan. "So there were no surprises in the performance of the cellulosic ethanol racing fuel.

"After the St. Petersburg race, the crew completely disassembled the race cars and closely inspected their fuel systems," Fehan explained. "The fuel cells were in perfect condition. Working with the sanctioning body, the fuel cell manufacturers, and General Motors, we believe we've developed a long-term solution for ethanol/gasoline blends in racing."

Fehan will participate in a special promotion sponsored by EPIC on Wednesday, April 16, from 11:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. PT. Motorists will be able to buy E85 for their flex-fuel vehicles for 85 cents per gallon at the Conserv Fuel station at 11699 San Vicente Blvd. in Los Angeles.

"Any time you sell a gallon of anything for 85 cents, there is going to be a crowd, let alone something you can use to power your car," Fehan said with a laugh. "It will be a fun promotion.

"California is a state that often leads the way on environmental issues, so the Long Beach event is a great venue for Corvette Racing to introduce the racing version of E85 to Southern California fans. Californians in general and automotive enthusiasts in particular are very aware of alternative fuels, so this will be a tremendous opportunity to demonstrate that a renewable fuel like ethanol is part of the solution for America's energy needs."


AUTO-RACING - ALMS: Corvette Racing to Introduce E85 Ethanol Fuel at St. Pete Race - SPEEDtv.com
American Le Mans Series :: World Class
Werner got back around before the start-finish line but Field retook the lead on the second lap. It marked the first time Field led a Series race since Mid-Ohio in 2005 and the first time cellulosic E85 led a lap in the American Le Mans Series. He held the advantage until a slip on Lap 7 dropped him to third behind the two Audis.


American Le Mans Series :: World Class
Gavin qualified the No. 4 car second at 1:17.465 (91.458 mph). Saturday's race will be the second race that both the factory Corvettes will compete with cellulosic E85.

American Le Mans Series :: World Class
Jan Magnussen went quickest in GT1 in Corvette Racing's No. 3 Corvette C6.R at 1:18.938. The cellulosic E85-powered supercar was a little less than 0.6 seconds ahead of Oliver Gavin in the sister car.

i could go on..but I think you get the point.

[jay04]

Thats what i was saying..anything that u can get cellulose out of can be made to converted to ethanol. That gives us more option than just corn.

[91vr4n00maxima]

Originally Posted by Hammer

To get back on topic, Do you guys think building an engine from ground up to
run on E85 could run higher compression with turbos?
How about 10:1 compression with WRX 19T TD04HL turbos?
Do you think I could push 26 psi boost on a setup like that with E85
with its anti knock ability? This is getting close to a diesel turbo engine.
Put stage 3 heads on it to flow better it could be a wild street car.
Of course if it worked you would be in a world of hurt if one put 93 premium in it.

But my thought is to optimize the setup from the ground up to maximize E85
fuel for street use. Thoughts? AEM would be a must for something like this.

a local evo owner/builder recently did this and ran 10s on a STREET driven/STOCK evo9 turbo. this car is nearly full weight and did it on E95 fuel.


granted i dont know how long those aluminum rods he used are going to last with him driving the car often.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by Hammer

To get back on topic, Do you guys think building an engine from ground up to
run on E85 could run higher compression with turbos?
How about 10:1 compression with WRX 19T TD04HL turbos?
Do you think I could push 26 psi boost on a setup like that with E85
with its anti knock ability? This is getting close to a diesel turbo engine.
Put stage 3 heads on it to flow better it could be a wild street car.
Of course if it worked you would be in a world of hurt if one put 93 premium in it.

But my thought is to optimize the setup from the ground up to maximize E85
fuel for street use. Thoughts? AEM would be a must for something like this.

Yes Hammer, I believe that you're moving in the right direction.

Now it's a known fact that on gas ultamately you can make more power with lower compression and higher boost, vs higher compression lower boost before running into the detonation barier. Methanol is the opposite. Due to it's extreem chilling and throught the roof octane, this is possible.

I'm still playing with E85 to get a really good comparison, but so far I'm leaning towards higher compression. In fact I'm doing another engine build right now with 12.5:1. The higher compression gives more power overall, better low end, and spools the turbos quicker, and you can use smaller turbos too.

As far as "what's possible" I don't konw for sure, but I can tell you what I've seen work so far. The DSM guys are taking stock blocks out of the mits expo (2.4L) and slapping their heads on them. The interesting thing is that the compression is ~13:1 (not sure exactly what, this is based off the cranking compression). With this they then turn and run 25+ psi. I have heard rumor of 30psi on one of these setups, but I have yet to confirm this. All of this is done without any meth injection, or fancy parlor tricks. But, these guys really know what they're doing, so big front mounts, and these turbo's are properly sized to run as absolutely efficient as possible.

Obviously our engines are slightly different, and things like heat and combustion chamber design will have an effect, so there is really no way to "know" what's possible until you do it.

I can tell you though these DSM's are really nasty.


UPP

[lethal_vr4]

Links?

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by UPP

Yes Hammer, I believe that you're moving in the right direction.

Now it's a known fact that on gas ultamately you can make more power with lower compression and higher boost, vs higher compression lower boost before running into the detonation barier. Methanol is the opposite. Due to it's extreem chilling and throught the roof octane, this is possible.

I'm still playing with E85 to get a really good comparison, but so far I'm leaning towards higher compression. In fact I'm doing another engine build right now with 12.5:1. The higher compression gives more power overall, better low end, and spools the turbos quicker, and you can use smaller turbos too.

As far as "what's possible" I don't konw for sure, but I can tell you what I've seen work so far. The DSM guys are taking stock blocks out of the mits expo (2.4L) and slapping their heads on them. The interesting thing is that the compression is ~13:1 (not sure exactly what, this is based off the cranking compression). With this they then turn and run 25+ psi. I have heard rumor of 30psi on one of these setups, but I have yet to confirm this. All of this is done without any meth injection, or fancy parlor tricks. But, these guys really know what they're doing, so big front mounts, and these turbo's are properly sized to run as absolutely efficient as possible.

Obviously our engines are slightly different, and things like heat and combustion chamber design will have an effect, so there is really no way to "know" what's possible until you do it.

I can tell you though these DSM's are really nasty.


UPP

This is sounding better and better. Now if Ray's stroker 3.5L motor can run 11:1 or 12:1 pistons...
A setup like this would have a lot of low end torq and near zero lag issues.
Add AWD and a 550-600 awhp setup with lots of low end it would bring a whole new level of respect to the 3s on the street. It would be hard to take a 3s on a roll if it was setup like this. Maybe we can even get a tax incentive to build an E85 only use car! LOL!

[UPP]

Supposedly there is a Colorado Tax credit. It's supposed to be a full credit too, not just a write-off. Read it somewhere. Don't know for sure though, I'll have to look into it more. The only credit I know for sure exists is a federal one, but you have to buy and be the original owner of a flex fuel....

UPP

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by UPP

Supposedly there is a Colorado Tax credit. It's supposed to be a full credit too, not just a write-off. Read it somewhere. Don't know for sure though, I'll have to look into it more. The only credit I know for sure exists is a federal one, but you have to buy and be the original owner of a flex fuel....

UPP

It just so happens that I have my own fuel farm and fuel pumps already.
All I need is a retail license.

[a2j]

as far as people saying that e85 no good, etc , listening them is waste of time.
I will use whatever I think is the best for my needs. I don't care if its made out of corn, garbage, or some other stuff. its cheap, its out there, and if you have chance to use it, why not? how exactly its gonna hurt me?