cryogenics to help strengthen motor

[msGTvr418]

i see so much talk about week components in our cars such as bearings and what not, yet there is a cheap alternative to all of them. why dont we cryogenic the bearings and all other parts of our motors when it comes time to rebuild or just to strengthen. it will not only make them stronger but it will, increase the durability and life of our motors. heres a little bit of info on the process. i am going to be building a motor that is all cryogeniced just to see the difference just cryoing a go cart motor increased lap times on a cart in my area. i know a guy who has a machine and my car will be used as a test dummy. but i was just wondering if anyone had any other thoughts on the topic.

it is at cryogenic temperatures that the molecules change, making all the retained austenite turn to martensite a denser, refined mix, smaller and more uniform than austenite. Dry cryogenic processing physically transforms the microstructure into a new, more refined uniform structure, which is stronger. The dry cryogenic process does not expose the material to liquids, eliminating the risk of thermal shock. The material is computer cooled very slowly (-300 degrees F) held at a temperature for a determined amount of time then slowly brought back up to room temperature. The entire process is done electronically to perform a precise timetable that is usually between twenty to sixty hours allowing the material to adjust to the progressively cooler environment, then to return to normal temperature.Crankshafts, cams, cam gears, cylinder heads, engine blocks, rods, bearings, golf clubs, razor blades and much, much, more can be Cryo processed. The Cryo process helps to strengthened and increases the life span of parts. It also helps relieve stress, and prevent wear on parts.

this can help in the area of our blocks. cast cranks, rods, bearings. having the heads done will help prevent warping, seeing as we can not take much off them to begin with because of clearances. you can go as far as having the turbos done, which can help create better weight distribution throughout the turbine wheels, and create less friction creating quicker spooling. brakes can also be done, helping to prevent wear and warping for better brake rotor life and performance. i believe this could become a process to help make our motors stronger and def last longer. im not saying in any way that our motors our weak but they do tend to break a lot. when modding an engine it lasts less . wouldn't it be nice to create a motor even modded and allowing it to last twice as long. please share anyhting on this topic i think it is something thats worth talking about.

[PWR]

I've had many components in my engine cryo treated but i've only put about 3000 miles on it since it's been done, so I can't tell any difference.

The only drawback to cryo treating something is trying to treat something that will see high temps consistently. If the metal gets too hot it will revert back to a state it was in during it's manufacture process, which is where you're trying to get away from. It's different temps for different metals but they all have their melting point.

[NOMIEZVR-4]

how much does the process cost? Wouldn't it be wise to treat drivetrain components also?

[PWR]

Drivetrain components may not see as much of a difference since the part (or parts) that breaks may break for a reason cryo treating can't improve. Cryo treatments increase wear resistance, and decrease internal stresses as a side effect. No one has done any before and after tests to the drivetrain components that I've seen so it's all speculation and hearsay until then.

Cost depends on who you go with. Lots of places seem to be popping up that offer this service though. If you decide to get something treated make sure you ask how they do their treatments. It may vary from place to place.

[IIIkGT]

This is not something I would do to my car. It al depends on what material you have, hardness, anealing temp and much more. Martensite is actualy LESS dence then martensite. If one is to use this method it should be applyed to stainless steel components that do not form martensite as easily during quenching as ordinary steels do. Sure this method will most likely help to transform the retained austenite into martensite. The transformation into martensite raises the hardness but it lowers the toughness. I think the engineers that designed the engine parts gave the parts good blend of toughness and hardness. As for the turbos it would only take one run then all of the martensite would have transformed into other phases such as ferrite and cementite in the high temperaturesa and slow cooling

[Highboosted]

I know it works in brake rotors and gears, a couple of guys I know cryoed their straight-cut gearbox gears and it stopped them from breaking, but they are on the extreem end of things, trying to put almost 700HP through a T5.

[Boostaddict]

IMO, the only material to benefit from cry would be a carburized low carbon steel that was not processed correctly, and had a large amount of retained austenite. We design a bit of surface retained austenite in some of our gears for toughness, as we are already at 60HRC+ anyway so adding hardness is moot. Any austenitic stainless (300 series...most common car parts) should not benefit from this at all.

Don't be fooled into thinking that cryo'ing your aluminum components will do squat. Its not possible. The reason that brake rotors and other cast iron parts sometime see benefit is a debated issue... perhaps due to the extreme solidification stresses of chilled and white iron...

Wayne

Originally Posted by IIIkGT

This is not something I would do to my car. It al depends on what material you have, hardness, anealing temp and much more. Martensite is actualy LESS dence then martensite. If one is to use this method it should be applyed to stainless steel components that do not form martensite as easily during quenching as ordinary steels do. Sure this method will most likely help to transform the retained austenite into martensite. The transformation into martensite raises the hardness but it lowers the toughness. I think the engineers that designed the engine parts gave the parts good blend of toughness and hardness. As for the turbos it would only take one run then all of the martensite would have transformed into other phases such as ferrite and cementite in the high temperaturesa and slow cooling

[msGTvr418]

ive seen some testimonials on it and have talked to numerous people who have dohne it and it seems to be a good process. it also helps to put less stress on welded materials such as manifolds. i am ripping my whole tranny apart to be cryoed, i mean why not our trannies are weak as shit, and it seems to me its worth a try. its about 4 dollars a pound and i think cheaper for heavier items. as far as brakes huge difference. making things wear less. good idea for bearings and synchroes, they ahve done tests on all sort of metals and materials and it has helped with all. you dont think dropping a material down to -300 degrees is gonna do anything. anything cast like are cranks is a good idea, all cast parts have flaws cryoing that part will help balance the atoms and create a stronger base.

[Boostaddict]

Yeah, I think I'll go balance some atoms right now (insert sarcasm here)...

Originally Posted by msGTvr418

ive seen some testimonials on it and have talked to numerous people who have dohne it and it seems to be a good process. it also helps to put less stress on welded materials such as manifolds. i am ripping my whole tranny apart to be cryoed, i mean why not our trannies are weak as shit, and it seems to me its worth a try. its about 4 dollars a pound and i think cheaper for heavier items. as far as brakes huge difference. making things wear less. good idea for bearings and synchroes, they ahve done tests on all sort of metals and materials and it has helped with all. you dont think dropping a material down to -300 degrees is gonna do anything. anything cast like are cranks is a good idea, all cast parts have flaws cryoing that part will help balance the atoms and create a stronger base.

[msGTvr418]

hahahaha...... yeah, to bad thats something that actually happens not in those exact words now that i read it again i sounded like a 3 year old, but it helps to realign and strengthen the parts. lets not make this a flame war, to much of that happens on this board.