Alcohol vs. Nitrous vs. Propane vs. Water

[Deathsled]

Also EGTs were at or below 200deg Celsius

now that would be interesting to see.....

[mjannusch]

So does anybody have ANY sort of measurable results from this?

The closest I'm seeing is this "amazing" set of datalogs:



...which look to me that the car accelerated about as well in 3rd gear without water as it did with water.

Anyone have back-to-back dyno runs with their best tune without water/alcohol/propane/whatever and then another pull with their injected fluid of choice that actually shows a clear power gain?

[dlabonte]

Here are the numbers I collected from the manufactures MSDS reporting % Methanol (plus other stuff in some cases)

Manufacture Product Metanol %
Camco -20 < 35
Peak -20 < 33
Peak -25 < 35
Peak -30 < 36 (<5 Propylene Glycol)
Prestone De-Icer 30-60% (3-7% Ethylene Glycol)

As you can see the manufactures are not even sure what is in their product, so no guarante what you are always getting.

Best regards,

Dan Labonte

[Import Power]

i posted the logs of the with and without propane many moons ago showing a large decrease in knock.

[dlabonte]

Originally Posted by mjannusch

So does anybody have ANY sort of measurable results from this?

The closest I'm seeing is this "amazing" set of datalogs:



...which look to me that the car accelerated about as well in 3rd gear without water as it did with water.

Anyone have back-to-back dyno runs with their best tune without water/alcohol/propane/whatever and then another pull with their injected fluid of choice that actually shows a clear power gain?

I do not have a dyno run yet for my car. Using a G-tech I measured a back to back increase of 80hp going from 9psi to 15psi on mostly stock VR-4.

Check out www.snowperformance.net for some dyno runs and world records set with Porshe and diesel dragster.

Here is a quote from Tommy Williams who I sold a Stage-II kit to last fall in a GB:

"Dan - I'm not sure if I showed this to you before but my EGT's have been consistently below 200 degrees Celsius when spraying a w/m -35 degree mix [see attached]. I dyno'd with the current setup and produced 467 AWHP. again, I'm running TEC 15G turbos, Denso 660cc injectors, PRO-M 80mm intake and MAFTuner for fuel control @ boost of 22.5 psi. I don't think my EGT sensor/setup is off and all components are still relatively new. I can't really say how low the EGT's went since my minimum measure
200C but clearly I achieved a greater reduction than 200. "

I will email him and see if he has some dyno results to share.

Dan Labonte

[mjannusch]

Originally Posted by Import Power

i posted the logs of the with and without propane many moons ago showing a large decrease in knock.

I'm not questioning the reduction of knock - I'm questioning whether it actually gains power or not. I was never able to actually make more power injecting water or alcohol/water. Back-to-back track passes netted identical results on 92 octane and 15 psi of boost versus alcohol/water at 19 psi of boost.

Can anyone show measured results on a 3/S car?

...and I'm not talking a pull where the car is knocking like crazy on the pump gas only - I'm talking clean well-tuned pulls on both setups.

[mjannusch]

Originally Posted by dlabonte

"Dan - I'm not sure if I showed this to you before but my EGT's have been consistently below 200 degrees Celsius when spraying a w/m -35 degree mix [see attached]. I dyno'd with the current setup and produced 467 AWHP. again, I'm running TEC 15G turbos, Denso 660cc injectors, PRO-M 80mm intake and MAFTuner for fuel control @ boost of 22.5 psi. I don't think my EGT sensor/setup is off and all components are still relatively new. I can't really say how low the EGT's went since my minimum measure 200C but clearly I achieved a greater reduction than 200. "

There's so many things in that quote that don't make any sense at all that I think I'd rather see some stacked-up dyno plots than try to figure out what he's saying.

[Import Power]

Less knock means more timing=more power

[mjannusch]

Originally Posted by Import Power

Less knock means more timing=more power

...and water means less power. Enough that just changes in ambient humidity affect power output significantly enough to be measured. Now inject a whole lot of liquid water - what happens to power output? That's my question.... Does the reduction of knock and preservation of timing advance make up for the loss of power from injecting water?

[Deathsled]

i dont even see how u can be boosting with 200 degree C exhaust gas temps

doesnt any else wonder about that? that is LOOOWWWW