Brake & Suspension system overhaul @ 135K - Possible Bible?

[ProwlerGT]

To me there is:
stock > better than stock > extremely better than stock (ie: kick ass)
We're talking 95 NA 3000GT with 135K with OE stock Braking & Suspension System. The only thing replaced ever was the front struts at 92K. I can hear my rear suspension shocks make noise whenever they move. It sucks.

Before anyone reads this and gives me the help I so need, please know that I'm looking for "better than stock". I have an NA and I want better braking that will possible even last longer than stock does on the maint and better suspension in the same sense. I do not need "EXTREMELY BETTER THAN STOCK" until I do my TT upgrade one great unscheduled day on some great unknown year, so we'll deal with all that later.
What I'd like to know is what the best way to approach this is. I have a list built of all the parts that I think are involved in the Braking & Suspension systems. If I get good feedback on this I may turn this into a bible after editing it up and posting it to a new thread later on.
Please make sure when you reply that you don't confuse these words cause it it makes life difficult: STRUTS (Front at least in the 95 3000GT's), SHOCKS (REAR at least in the 95 3000GT's), and "COIL SPRINGS" as referred to in the service manual which in performance circles are called "SPRINGS". IE: Intrax Lowering Springs (*Note & Tangent: I do not want to LOWER my car so don't suggest it. No point until TT and even then I might not because its a daily driver. I'm 230 lbs and its hard enough to get in and out of. One day VLS, but maybe then I'd just HIT MY HEAD HUH !? LOL)

General Questions:
1. I'd like for someone to tell me what should or shouldn't need to be replaced based on my lists below or if you know of something I haven't covered.
2. Keep mind my thinking while reviewing this - Is there a "better than stock" option for ANY part discussed?
3. If the "better than stock" option is only SLIGHTLY better and then there is only the "EXTREME" option after that then I'd go with the cheaper of the "stock" or "better than stock" option.
4. I don't have ECS on my car do I? I don't think so, but would like it confirmed.

Braking System
Brake Questions/Info:
1. Terminology check - Are the rotors (as we know them) called DISCs in the service manual?
All I could see there (unless I'm mistaken) is rotors for the axle which looked like a part that was underneath/behind what I've always called the ROTOR that the brake pad applies to in order to stop. I guess though that makes sense because having DISC brakes would mean the pad applies to a DISC right?
2. I know I need new rotors and pads and I'm hoping this will get rid of my brake pedal behavior. It is kinda POPPING when I press it all the way down as well as the BRAKE light has come on a couple of days recently, but its not constant. If its not the rotors and pads, what else could be causing the brake pedal to POP when depressed all the way down (while car running)?.

Stuff to replace:
1. Rotors - Looking at these because they seem of course "better than stock" but they are not for TT type performance. Thoughts?
Powerslots - http://www.driven-performance.com/display/341
or the Stillen's:
http://www.3sxperformance.com/brakes.asp
I've read a couple reviews that might put the Stillen's higher on the mark, but I'd like the board's opinion.

2. Pads - What pads would I pick to go with the Powerslots from driven-performance? or should I go with the Stillen's cause they make the pads for their rotors as well? I'd be more inclinded to go the "same brand" route for both parts, but I'm wondering if the Powerslots are better and if it even matters what pads I pick from driven-performance cause it'll work "better than stock" and be quiet. My main concerns are to get a little bit better stopping power and be QUIET.

3. Brake lines/hoses - Should I? I know on other places on under the hood there is rust. IE: The main fuel line leading to the fuel filter. While I haven't inspected the brake lines myself I'm just wondering if because the fuel ones are in this condition if the brake ones are too. I'd be inclined to think "YES".

4. Anything else that would've worn out considerably that I should replace for the BRAKES?

Suspension System
Suspension Questions/Info:
1. I know I need rear shocks for sure, but I know thats not all. I have all kinds of noise coming from the front suspension and less so in the rear. I live in New Orleans and our cars are NOT GOOD for riding around New Orleans because of the pot holes and substandard roads/streets. I have been told by TWO shops (including the dealer) that my entire front end suspension system should be replaced, though that was like 2 years ago. Basically I believe its because while I'm sure there is considerable wear, its mainly NOISE that is the biggest problem not to mention swaying side to side on hard turns and again the rear shocks are just OVER-DONE a long time ago.

Stuff to replace:
1. Rear shocks - Looking for the "better than stock" option here.

2. COIL Springs - "COIL SPRINGS" - two words, again as in the service manual. I'm thinking I need all 4 new COIL SPRINGS. Am I right? Isn't 135K good enough to need new ones or you think my swaying side to side on hard turns is mainly from the rear shocks and all other old suspension parts? If I'm right though and do need them, looking for the "better than stock" option.

3. Front Suspension parts - What of these should I replace?
a. Struts (Now have 43K on them; Still good right?; Thought about replacing them though to match the REAR shocks BRAND and type.)
b. stabilizer bar
c. camber and caster
d. lower arm
e. stabilizer link
f. all knuckles
g. ball joint
h. all bushings

4. Rear Suspension parts - What of these should I replace?
a. rear axle hub (probably don't need to replace; I think?)
b. rear suspension assembly (probably don't need to replace; I think?)
c. shock absorber assembly (covered this in #1 above)
d. stabilizer bar
e. trailing arm
f. upper arm
g. lower arm
h. assist link
i. crossmember bushing
j. all knuckles (if any in rear)
k. all bushings (if any besides crossmember bushing in rear)

5. Anything else that would've worn out considerably that I should replace for the BRAKES?

[91Stealthrt2]

take a yonder to www.supercar-engineering.com

Id like to make a little comment. Do it RIGHT the first time.

meaning don't go spend 600 bucks on brakes to turn around 1 year later and drop even more money. same with the suspension.

We have much more brake upgrades than suspension.

So you don't want to lower at all. So you can stick with OEM struts and stock springs. Or go with Ground control(stiffer springs) and adjust the height to your liking.

OR go with full JIC. Very stiff and probably not for the average daily driver who doesn't plan to roadrace or autox. (and its expensive) fully adjustable and I believe you can rebuild the struts unlike oem.

As far as brakes, you can go with upgraded pads/rotors/and SS lines and you will probably be happy. Again, unless you are a serious racer or like to push your car many times in a row to the point of the stock brakes fading. You can upgrade to TT brakes which will make a big difference and not cost 2k like a brake kit.

Tires make a HUGE difference in handling/ride/stopping and overall performance.

NA's don't have many options.

Read up on 3sxperformance and supercar-engineering.

You cannot have the best of both worlds with performance and not having them wear out or give off more brake dust much more than oem.

As far as suspension besides springs/struts. I would definately get a rear sway bar(that will make the biggest improvement) gets rid of understeer.

Good luck,
Rusty

ps I am very tired so I may remember more stuff tomorrow.

[ProwlerGT]

NOOB check - Define what people mean by "fading" with regards to brakes? I am GUESSING it means "farther distance in which the brakes will stop the car" or something like that.

My novel should say to you that I want to do it right the first time, but thanks for that comment. I appreciate that attitude.

Just to clarify - again I'm a NA 95 3000GT and with a dirty plenum at best I'm getting probably 205HP. I ain't racin nobody, but I sure do wanna feel like I'm racing when I am driving "EXTRA DEFENSIVELY" around corners -

Anyone selling TT OEM brake kits besides Supercars?
To upgrade to the TT brake kit on their site is damn near $2000. That is what I'd say is: "EXTREMELY BETTER THAN STOCK" for my car.

Also, I beg to differ on the performance comment. Just about the only thing my car is going to see in the near future to boost HP is an FIPK, so with only having added that its not like I'd be putting that much more strain on the brakes or suspension than is already PRESENT in a NA stock machine. So looking at the Stillen's or Power Slots I would think they'd last just as long (rotors/pads) if not better than stock would? Why would I be wrong there? Just trying to understand.

I'm hoping you (91Stealthrt2) or someone else responds tomorrow, cause I was hoping for a review of what I wrote and actual answers to my questions.

[91Stealthrt2]

Man I am dead tired.... lol

But yes brake fade is brakes basically overheating or your fluid boiling so that you pedal becomes soft and you don't slow as quickly.

As far as the TT brake upgrade I am talking about used parts(hub, caliper, larger rotors) Then add decent pads, ss lines and good fluid.

For the performance part, just make sure you car has a decent tuneup.

Im not sure how serious you are with the suspension, but you have 2 options NON ECS OEM struts, or KYB gr2. I know the gr2 are not as good as the ecs version, but Not sure about the non ecs*which you have* BUT either way your struts are shot so either is going to be better.

I would recommend Either H&R- 1"drop, only about 15% firmer, EIbach 1.3" firmer than H&R, or Ground control- 0-3"firmer than both I believe.

I would replace all the strut mounts. tie rod ends, ball joints and axels if need be.

Rusty

[ProwlerGT]

LOL - I didn't expect you to reply that late. I thought you went to BED SILLY ! lol
Anyway, you really think I'd need to replace the AXLES ? SHIT ! I wasn't going to go that far.
I can't believe I missed tie rod ends in my list.

[ProwlerGT]

Is there no one else that can give me a lil Help? The car that has the parts I need for cheap will not be in the hands of the dude selling the stuff after Wednesday. I need to figure out all that I need.

[91Stealthrt2]

which parts are you wanting to use???

If its a turbo you can take all the parts from the front end. But quite a few things you might as well just buy new.

[ProwlerGT]

I'm not sure what the guy selling the parts has. He says he has various parts from various cars that he's getting towed away. I'm guessing he doesn't have it organized and maybe they are all still sitting on the car because I haven't been able to get an answer from him as to what years/miles/cars models he has, yet he says he has all these PARTS. I'm supposed to talk on the phone with him tomorrow.

Lets put it this way.
Financially I'm really not looking to spend more than $1000 - $1500 in SUM on fixing up my Brake & Suspension system. So TT Brake set, BREMBO Brake set, WHOEVER's brake set I'm looking to UPGRADE 1 step up from STOCK for my NA for everything BRAKES and SUSPENSION. YA WIT ME?
Could I get the Stillen or PowerSlot rotors/pads and have it seem like its better than NA stock and would that be anywhere near equivalent to the TT braking system?
My answers:
1. If getting the Stillen/PowerSlot stuff with my reg NA caliper would show a PERF gain in stopping power then I'd be FINE with that. STILL I want to know what other PARTS I should replace on the braking system after 135K.
Here's a good way to see how I think:
http://www.supercar-engineering.com/...dcompounds.htm
Visit that link. Of the pads on that page I wouldn't want the ones that are the "lowest" on that page (the AXXIS Ultimate), but I'd want the next ONE UP/STEP UP called "Carbotech Bobcat" and not the "PLUS" model because that to me would be for when I'd have the TT.

2. All of the suspension kit options I've seen are like $1500 or higher alone. Is there nothing else cheaper besides the STOCK option?? If not I suppose the STOCK might have to be the option if there is nothing else.
NO DUDE, my struts are not SHOT.... my SHOCKS ARE !!!! ARRGH !!!

3. VERY IMPORTANT - I have 16" wheels on my NA. If I went to the larger TT rotors/calipers would I have to upgrade my wheels as well to 17" ?

Dammit, I'm freaking out that I might lose my connection to that guy who's shipping the cars out Wednesday. I'm forming my shopping list now with comparitive prices before our phone call.

[ProwlerGT]

Ok, well I stayed up late again as I shouldn't have and researched all this. I'd like someone to tell me what they think if you have some time. I've shown the PERFORMANCE UPGRADE OPTIONS which I deem to be a ONE STEP Up from STOCK for the NA and I've also shown the STOCK upgrade pricing from ROCKVILLE MITSU. I don't even know if this is ALL I'd need to get my suspension to a "NEAR NEW" state depending on what else would likely be worn out that I may be missing here, but I think I've come damn close.

Research start time: 12:36 AM 9/27/2004 CST
Research end time: 4:39 AM 9/27/2004 CST(time of this post almost)

TOTALS:
*All totals are before s&h and tax (if any)

RockVille Mitsu STOCK OPTIONS (all new parts): $1527.34

Fairly new slightly used parts from a private seller: {UNKNOWN YET}

Performance Upgrade 1 (One Notch Better than Stock): $1995.62
3SX Stainless/3SX Connectors/3SX Stillen Rotors&Pads/3SX Bushing Kit/RockVille Mitsu Lower Front Arms/Eibach Pro Kit Lowering Springs (only if I can align perfectly)/3SX KYB GR-2's for rear only
Performance Upgrade 1 with PerformancePartz.com KYB GR2 Shocks instead of 3SX's: $1932.63

Performance Upgrade 2 (One Notch Better than Stock): $1848.65
3SX Stainless/3SX Connectors/Driven-Performance Power Slots/Driven-Performance Hawk HPS Pads/3SX Bushing Kit/RockVille Mitsu Lower Front Arms/Eibach Pro Kit Lowering Springs (only if I can align perfectly)/3SX KYB GR-2's for rear only Performance Upgrade 2 with PerformancePartz.com KYB GR2 Shocks instead of 3SX's: $1785.66

Performance Upgrade 3 (One Notch Better than Stock): $1841.70
3SX Stainless/3SX Connectors/SuperCar CarboTech Rotors&Pads/3SX Bushing Kit/RockVille Mitsu Lower Front Arms/Eibach Pro Kit Lowering Springs (only if I can align perfectly)/3SX KYB GR-2's for rear only
Performance Upgrade 3 with PerformancePartz.com KYB GR2 Shocks instead of 3SX's: $1778.71

Parts
3Sx Performance(http://www.3SXPerformance.com)
Brakes
3SX Stainless-Steel Braided Brake Lines
- 3000GT / Stealth 1991 - 1999 (Turbo & Non-Turbo): $149.95 >> Special $129.95!!

Stock Solid Brake Line Connectors
-Front Pair FWD & AWD: $9.95
(FWD don't have connectors in the back from what I'm reading)

Stillen Performance Brake Pads - 3000GT -$110.00 (full set for car)

Stillen Performance Cross-Drilled Rotors - $469.95

Suspension
Bushing Kit #6 94-99 FWD Suspension $329.95
http://www.3sxperformance.com/images...ous-03-500.jpg (photo)

Mistubishi Lower Front Control Arm
http://www.3sxperformance.com/images...2781-2-500.jpg (photo)
DOHC TT & NA 1994-1999 (Build Oct 93+): $319.95

Intrax Lowering Springs - 1.5-1.75" drop
This eliminates the infamous well-gap between the tires and wheel wells, and dramatically improves the car's handling and cornering capabilities.
91-99 3000GT Base, 91-96 Stealth Base/ES, 95-96 Stealth RT (non-ECS) 551012: $239.95

Eibach Pro Kit Lowering Springs - Eibach springs lower the car about 1" and increase the handling capabilities. Eibach springs are the "softest" of the spring upgrades, offering a lowered stance reducing the well gap, and increasing the handling while only minimally increasing the ride stiffness.
3000GT Base, Stealth Base, ES (excl 95+ w/ electric sunroof) #2813.140
(2WD Non-ECS Equipped Cars) $259.95

KYB GR-2 Stock Replacement Struts (non-ECS)
These are stock replacement gas struts used in the 3000GT and Stealth (stock struts from Mitsubishi are KYB's). These are a non-ECS strut, so ECS-equipped cars will lose the active suspension, but these offer an alternative to replacing pricey stock struts from Mitsubishi for about half of the price! Available for the following models/years:
3000GT / Stealth Set of 4 (2 front, 2 rear): $359.95 Save $20! - NON ECS
Strut KYB Pair Front $199.95


Supercar (has less options than 3SX)(http://www.supercar-engineering.com)

Brakes
PADS
Carbotech Bobcat - 3000GT/Stealth NA '91-99 - Front BP-530-Bc Carbotech $84.15
Carbotech Bobcat - 3000GT/Stealth NA '91-99 - Rear BP-383-Bc Carbotech $95.20
total $179.35
ROTORS
Carbotech Brake Rotors, 3000GT/Stealth NA '91-99, Complete Set BrkRotors-Axxs-NAS4 Carbotech $246.68

Suspension
{NO AFFORDABLE OPTIONS}


Driven-Performance - Power Slot (http://www.driven-performance.com/)
ROTORS
Front Pair - PS-583 PSLR $140.00
Rear Pair - PS-584 PSLR $155.00
total $295.00
PADS
Hawk Performance HPS Front Pads - HWK-HB214F.618 $74.99
Hawk Performance HPS Rear Pads - HWK-HB367F.585 $62.99
total $137.98


PerformancePartz.com (http://www.PerformancePartz.com)- (VERY GOOD PRICE ON NEAR-STOCK REPLACEMENTS)

I showed the price for struts here even though I'm not needing struts at the moment. If ya'll went to all this trouble, would you upgrade the STRUTS too even though they only have about 43K on them?http://www.performancepartz.com/index.php?cPath=149_506

KYB GR2 Shocks and Struts
1991 - 1999 MITSUBISHI 3000 GT GR2 FRONT STRUTS
ALL GAS STRUT, FRONT, EXC ADJUSTABLE SUSPENSION $94.92 each x 2 = 189.84

1991 - 1999 MITSUBISHI 3000 GT GR2 REAR SHOCKS
ALL GAS SHOCKS, REAR, EXC ADJUSTABLE SUSPENSION $68.48 each x 2 = 136.96


Mitsubishi STOCK REPLACEMENT PRICE GUIDE - RockVille Mitsu (PRICED per EACH - not pairs or quads)(http://www.mitsupartsdirect.com)

MR389546/MR389548/MR493985/MR569592 Front Brake Pad Set $45.54
MR129781 Front Brake Body Side Hose $7.40 x 2
MR129746 Front Brake wheel side hose $10.43 x 2
MB895097/MB928319 Front Brake Disc(ROTOR) $74.31 x 2
MB949443 Front Suspension Coil Spring $59.14 x 2
MR162783/MR162781 Front Left Lower Front Control Arm Assembly $242.96
MR162784 Front Right Lower Front Control Arm Assembly $242.96

MR389578 Rear Brake Pad Set $45.54
MR129751 Rear Brake body side Hose $11.19 x 2
MR129750 Rear Brake Wheel Side Hose $10.39 x 2
MB587579 Rear Brake Disc(ROTOR) $111.80 x 2
MB949447 Rear Suspension Coil Spring $43.05 x 2
MB584854/MR162782/MR535505 Rear Right/Left Rear Lower Arm Assembly $84.87 x 2
MB631741 Rear Shock Absorber $62.59 x 2

Total: $1527.34
Amazing, everyone bitches about STOCK prices, but over there at ROCKVILLE MITSU I can have JUST about all that I need for around $250-$400 less than my performance upgrades listed at top. Still, I don't know if I'm getting everything in the STOCK list here. I'm wondering if the bushings are separate.

[ProwlerGT]

Did I kill my own thread? LOL