Big brake kit, need some opinions

[prerunner221]

I'm looking to get a big brake kit for my car very soon. I would like the opinions on both of these kits, because I don't know of anyone around here that has either of them. If you have one or the other, or have any experience with one or the other please chime in. These brakes need to be good for the street and track, as the car will eventually be beaten on when the motor gets done. Thanks.

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templa...ubFolderId=222

http://supercar-engineering.com/sc2/...roducts_id=220

[Chain]

Holy crap thats almost more than I paid for my whole car.

[lethal_vr4]

Get the stoptech kit. I have the exact stoptech kit on the street car and the brembo kit on the track car.... I like the Stoptech's better.

[Echo419]

$3K!? does that come with a "Happy ending"?

[lethal_vr4]

Happy ending in that the shop gets your money and you get your brakes.. then yes.

[prerunner221]

Why do you like the Stoptech ones better? Better feel, less fade, stronger? When I spend 3K on brakes I want them to be the best I can get. Thanks again for the replies.

[bluemax_1]

Haven't tried the Brembo's but I have the Stoptech 355mm kit, and yes, can recommend them wholeheartedly. Fantastic kit. Used them at Gingerman and they worked well, but didn't get to use the brake temp paint on track to see exactly how hot the rotors were getting. I'll post up when I do.

I went with the Stoptech kit because they custom develop, test and optimize the kit for brake balance/bias with the stock rears, so you can keep your stock rears (which only take up about 30% of the braking load at most) and have optimal balance. With the other 'generic' Big Brake Kits, they're simply giving you brakes made for another car with adapters so they'll bolt on to your car. Stoptech actually tests braking performance and sizes the pistons in their calipers accordingly.

To get proper front-rear brake bias with any other kit, you need to install a brake porportioning valve AND have sufficient experience, knowledge to tune it.

Obviously, even with the Stoptech kit, it's possible to improve brake bias with a proportioning valve (if you know what you're doing), by tuning the bias based on your tires and suspension setup (different grip, different suspension stiffness changes weight transfer and thus how much braking torque can be optimally applied to each axle). If you don't know what you're doing though, you can royally mess things up with a brake proportioning valve.

If you don't install/tune a brake proportioning valve, then most BBK's tend to generate more brake torque in front, decreasing your overall braking performance. Remember your absolute best braking is governed by the grip limits of your tires. Your tire's grip is dependent (in part) on the pressure on them from the weight on that axle. The best braking is achieved when you generate the maximum brake torque possible at each axle (optimally corner, but let's generalize with front and rear axles since we aren't talking about adjusting brake bias between left and right wheels) before wheel lockup occurs. This is called threshold braking and also requires experience and sensitivity to your car.

If you're generating more brake torque in front proportionately, your front tires will lockup sooner than the rears, and in order to brake without locking up the tires, you're underusing the rear tires' grip potential. This is what 'most' BBK's do, and it's relatively safe (safer than rear bias) since it induces understeer at the limit, but allows you to retain control of the car if you're not braking in a straight line. Obviously though, if you're underusing the grip potential of one pair( rear) of tires, your also not going to be slowing/stopping in the shortest distance possible.

If you screw up with a brake proportioning valve (or install bigger brakes in the rear) and develop a rear bias, your rears will lock up first and your car will either get seriously squirrelly when you hit the brakes, or you'll just completely lose control altogether (same reason why you never put snow tires only on the front axle). when your rears lockup first, the rear end will want to swing around on you whenever you hit the brakes.

Since Stoptech's done the work of testing and tuning the kit to optimize brake bias (by switching between different sized caliper pistons), you don't need to install a brake proportioning valve when using them with the stock rear brakes, but you can add that later if you have enough know-how or know someone who can help tune the bias for you when your setup is finalized (like I said, different tires, with different grip, stiffer suspension, weight reduction that affects weight distribution in the car all affect fine tuning of brake bias)

But hey, listen to lethal VR4. I'm just presenting the empirics and theoretical reasons for me choosing the Stoptech kit over anything else, he's actually got both kits and has had a chance to feel them in operation.


Max

[lethal_vr4]

First of what I have:

Stoptech 355x35mm kit (note only used on track once... mainly for show on street car)
Pros: Larger diameter rotor (by one inch)
Stiffer Caliper (brace that goes in the mouth of the caliper on ST's)
Cheaper pads
Cons: Replacement rotor are ~2x cost
Harder to change pads at track (have to remove bridge)



SCE Brembo kit with spacer between caliper halves to allow a thicker rotor.
This allows me to run a thicker two piece Coleman rotor. (track setup.. get's regular floggings)
Pros: Larger thickness of rotor probably a bit more heat dispersal.
Cheaper rotors
Larger pad selection (I believe)
Easier to replace pads
Single caliper replacement is a lower cost and more readily availble.
Cons: More expensive pads
Modified Studs, required large wheel spacer to clear larger caliper

Summary:
For track use I think the StopTechs are eqiavlant to my modified Brembo's in everyway with a slight nod to caliper stiffness for the ST's. Intial cost of the ST is more but I think that the pads price will make the ST actually cheaper in the long run (have to run many, many set of pads to break even). However I do not know the amount of rotor wear for equal track conditions on the ST kit. My Colemans (cryo treated) last forever.

One the street between the kits the only thing you will notice is a lighter wallet.

Max above has great comments and I almost buy that Stoptech's *track* test each caliper and match them per application.... my personal opinion from when I visited them with Philip from SCE is that they do limited testing, the rest comes from track data from teams they supply breaks too. My "Big Reds" (I.E. Brembos) do indeed transfer more braking torque up front, whether ST's are any better is anybodies guess. Once you modify the car's weight, weight balance, spring rate, dampning, pad compound, tire preasure/compounds... and yes caliper piston ratios brake balance changes anyway.

*Probably more math then anything delevoping the ST kit for the 3/s.

I'd call Philip at SCE.. he is much more knowledgeable then me on brakes.

BTW Wheel choice will be very important on either kit, as they both are fairly massive.

[lethal_vr4]

PS as always my spelling and grammer are horrible.

[lethal_vr4]

BTW Fastmax you bought the four wheel kit right? or just the fronts?