Alignment, tried everything to get in spec. Bore out bolt holes? - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

stacker4 · 11-05-2009, 11:21 PM

Yep, searched and read most of the posts.

I have Ground Control adjustable springs with stock struts, adjustable rear control arms, and +-1.75 bolts in the front struts.

I have the Lifetime Alignment at Firestone.

I took it to the body shop to get the frame bent or straightened, they looked at it and "moved a few things around" but told me I had to take it to a shop with a 4 angle trust machine or something like that.

I have heard of people boring out the bolt holes in their struts to get more range. But I can't find a how-to on it, it's not something I want to mess up. I will try to get the alignment reports posted up soon.

My main concern is the rear toe which is eating my tires bald in 2k miles.

Stealthee · 11-06-2009, 01:00 AM

The issue sounds more like its with your frame being tweaked or bent. That needs fixed before you go any further.

Joel_CA · 11-07-2009, 02:22 AM

Remember that Camber affects toe. If you have the factory camber adjustment maxed out at the bottom and used the adjustable upper arms from that point to bring the camber into spec- you've essentially affected the toe adjustment so far out of specifications- that the factory toe adjustment (essentric cams) at the trailing arm can't bring it back into spec. The amount of toe correction that can be made from the cams is limited to begin with.
Maxing out the factory camber adjustment to reduce negative camber will pull the lower control arm in. Pulling in from the bottom will toe the rear wheels out (at which point the range of the factory essentric cams can still correct toe to specs). If another camber adjustment is made at the upper arms to push the top of the wheel out (thus zeroing camber)- this will toe the rear wheels so far positive to a point where the range of the factory essentric cams cannot correct it. If you want to bring the toe adjustment back to a range where it can be corrected- you'll have to go a bit more negative on the rear camber via upper adjustment. You have to go as negative in camber as neccesary to bring the toe back into a range where it can be corrected by the essentrics.
In regards to tire wear- a little bit of negative camber is good for handling and wont harm your tire more than an incorrect toe setting would.

JJ

stacker4 · 11-07-2009, 12:34 PM

Thanks JJ, that really put things in perspective for me! I'm taking it to Truline on Monday, they have worked with a lot of lowered 3Ss before and can always get them near perfect. (highly recommended from the "car club")

You should consider making a point of reference write up thread, I couldn't find one when I was doing the mega search on this topic.

Joel_CA · 11-07-2009, 12:51 PM

I found this out on my own car. A couple of years ago, I had installed a set of Tein springs on my car and aligned it to as close to spec as possible. The factory camber adjustment was maxed out and it still had (out of spec) negative camber. Even with my camber maxed out- i still had enough toe adjustment ability to zero the toe.
I recently added adjustable upper arms to my car. By this time, my Teins were well broken in and had settled resulting in even more negative camber. During the alignment- without touching the already maxed out factory camber adjustment- i used the upper arms to correct the rear camber. As i did this, i could see the toe angle was being affected (which is normal since camber affects toe). After finding a good camber setting- i tried to adjust the toe but couldn't get it into spec even at its maximum settings. To solve it, i had to take some camber away, but just to the point where rear toe was within it's adjustment window enough to bring it to specs. Its just a matter if finding a good rear camber setting while keeping toe within the correctable range of it's already limited adjustment capability. Its more important to get the toe within specs as this will affect tire wear more than camber would in this situation.

JJ

bad84kat · 11-20-2009, 04:50 PM

Joel_CA is bang on but the most important thing that is always missed out by shops doing alignment on rears of our cars is to remove rear steering tie-rod (assist link on non AWS)from trailing arm during alignment then adjusting it as to not change alignment when re-installed.It is time consuming. I have never seen a shop get it right without telling then how to do it first and even then it almost takes a heavy hammer to beat it into their heads.

stacker4 · 11-20-2009, 11:02 PM

My frame wasn't bent at all. Firestone just didn't care enough or thought it was worth putting the time into because I bought a lifetime alignment so the don't make as much. I took it to Truline in Seattle and they had to perfect in an afternoon for $170. They did some re-centering of the suspension mounts or something like that but they said it wasn't that far off. Can't blame Firestone fully but I never got the impression that they were doing everything they could, just trying to churn out customers.

davebearclaw · 12-07-2009, 11:05 AM

Not to Hijack the thread, but I have some questions I hope you guys can answer. I just finished rebuilding my RT/TT and took it in for the alignment. They (NTB) told me they couldnt adhust camber in the front because they didnt know what the SPEC was supposed to be. I have brand new Tiens, Cusco adjustable uppers and adjustable rears, the struts aren't brand new but are fairly new still.
What should I tell them to set the front camber to?
I'd also like to know what the rear should be at because I doubt they did that right either.

stacker4 · 12-07-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davebearclaw

Not to Hijack the thread, but I have some questions I hope you guys can answer. I just finished rebuilding my RT/TT and took it in for the alignment. They (NTB) told me they couldnt adhust camber in the front because they didnt know what the SPEC was supposed to be. I have brand new Tiens, Cusco adjustable uppers and adjustable rears, the struts aren't brand new but are fairly new still.
What should I tell them to set the front camber to?
I'd also like to know what the rear should be at because I doubt they did that right either.

I think it can just be anything from zeroed out to as negative as you need for better handling. Mine was adjust by Truline which is a specialty shop and known to be the best around. They put mine at -1.33 in the front and -1.39 in the back and called it Semi-aggressive street use. The stock spec on the sheet was -.50 to .50

That's bs if they tell you they don;t know what the stock spec is, the machine has it on file and if it doesn't then I would find another shop that is equipped to perform adequate alignments. A lot of people have had trouble with all wheel alignments that don't go to a specialty shop for that and frame straightening. They had to loosen some bolts and shift some suspension stuff around to recenter everything on mine. I have gotten a lot of alignments and everywhere else I have gone can't charge enough to do it right.

davebearclaw · 12-07-2009, 01:00 PM

I will take it back tonight and give them these numbers. If they give me a blank stare then Ill know to take it somewhere else.
Just curious, I have an inclinometer that I used to align broadband satallite dishes all over Iraq. When its perfectly vertical it reads 90. So if I placed it on a vertical surface of the wheel and camber was 0'd out it would read 90 and within spec should read between -89.5 and 89.5 correct?