ProwlerGT's 3000GT Revival Thread - Start Up

[Nihil]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

Symptoms:

1. Extreme (half as much as normal) insufficient braking power.
2. Pads scrape rotors despite free turning wheels when jacked up.
3. Car pulls hard left (but this changes at times to soft left or even right)

1. Is the pedal hard to push, like the booster vac isn't connected properly? Maybe it's a bad booster? You said you replaced it? What brand did you use? I've replaced those before with aftermarket (a.k.a. non OEM) and they didn't work so I had to replace with another.

Is the pedal too easy to push (spongy/mushy), like there's air in the lines somewhere? Have you tried pumping the breaks a bunch before you brake to see if there's improvement? If so, maybe there's still air in the lines somewhere?

2. Is this on just the fronts, just the rears, or all four corners? Are you 100% positive you've installed the scrapers, shields, pads n pad retainers properly?

3. Have you had your car aligned recently?

Just a few easy things to check that could quite possibly cause your symptoms.....hate to see ya tear into more than you need too. It'd be nice for you to enjoy your car for once!

Good news about the engine, hopefully the brakes are to blame for power loss, and hopefully it's an easy fix!

Good luck my friend.

[ProwlerGT]

Originally Posted by Nihil

1. Is the pedal hard to push, like the booster vac isn't connected properly? Maybe it's a bad booster? You said you replaced it? What brand did you use? I've replaced those before with aftermarket (a.k.a. non OEM) and they didn't work so I had to replace with another.

Is the pedal too easy to push (spongy/mushy), like there's air in the lines somewhere? Have you tried pumping the breaks a bunch before you brake to see if there's improvement? If so, maybe there's still air in the lines somewhere?

2. Is this on just the fronts, just the rears, or all four corners? Are you 100% positive you've installed the scrapers, shields, pads n pad retainers properly?

3. Have you had your car aligned recently?

Just a few easy things to check that could quite possibly cause your symptoms.....hate to see ya tear into more than you need too. It'd be nice for you to enjoy your car for once!

Good news about the engine, hopefully the brakes are to blame for power loss, and hopefully it's an easy fix!

Good luck my friend.

1. Pedal is fine. Goes down easily, but does not feel firm at all. Its in the middle of firm and soft. The brake booster is OEM and used from a lesser mileage vehicle than mine. I did NOT need to replace it. Imagine my added FURY after doing all that. The pedal is fine and the vac line for the booster is brand new OEM as well with the built-in check valve.

I haven't tried pumping the brakes before stopping, but I guess I will today. I may rebleed first too, but its completely unnecessary as I've got this down to a tee now.

2. I believe its all 4 brakes and YES YES YES. All 4 wheels spin freely when elevated and there's no way the hardware is installed wrong. I've meticulously been troubleshooting this for over 2 years now without replacing the prop valve because everyone says how bad ass tough they are.

3. Alignment..... NO. Now this is interesting. What are you getting at? I've done tons of suspension upgrades and repair with the last element being the steering rack needing to go along with new tie rod ends and then I was gonna have it aligned. In the meantime though what could this cause?

Yes, I deserve more than just enjoying the car. What it should do is "transform" into a blow job machine and suck me off for paying so much attention to it. Oh...how vulgar of me?

[ProwlerGT]

Hey I just noticed we have the same year and model except for the Stealth part. lol

[Nihil]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

1. Pedal is fine. Goes down easily, but does not feel firm at all. Its in the middle of firm and soft. The brake booster is OEM and used from a lesser mileage vehicle than mine. I did NOT need to replace it. Imagine my added FURY after doing all that. The pedal is fine and the vac line for the booster is brand new OEM as well with the built-in check valve.

I haven't tried pumping the brakes before stopping, but I guess I will today. I may rebleed first too, but its completely unnecessary as I've got this down to a tee now.

2. I believe its all 4 brakes and YES YES YES. All 4 wheels spin freely when elevated and there's no way the hardware is installed wrong. I've meticulously been troubleshooting this for over 2 years now without replacing the prop valve because everyone says how bad ass tough they are.

3. Alignment..... NO. Now this is interesting. What are you getting at? I've done tons of suspension upgrades and repair with the last element being the steering rack needing to go along with new tie rod ends and then I was gonna have it aligned. In the meantime though what could this cause?

Yes, I deserve more than just enjoying the car. What it should do is "transform" into a blow job machine and suck me off for paying so much attention to it. Oh...how vulgar of me?

Well, with the suspension upgrades and having taken things apart, your alignment is probably off, when applying the brakes and being out of alignment, you can have issues, such as pulling to one side. But if you're going to be replacing the rack, then I'd wait and deal with it for the time being, unless it's unsafe.

Is the Booster hose installed the right way (arrow going to intake)?

I dunno what esle to say, sometimes when there's air in the lines, the brakes will be mushy, but if you pump'em a few times, they'll firm up enough to do a decent job, but after awhile, the mushyness will come back.

Did you use a piece of looped tubing when you bled your brakes? That's the best n easiest way if yer by yerself.

[hyperblu]

I made this mistake while changing my rotors on my 3k. On the back of the rotor there are "nubs" and "divots". When the rotor was not set in properly it would grind, but still ride normal. Check and make sure the back of the rotors are in place.

[ProwlerGT]

Drivability test 2 - Today I went out again by myself and paid closer attention. Windows down I can hear the brakes scrapping the rotors the entire time while going 10 - 35mph. Comparing the braking to a 2001 maxima which has the same engine size, a dodge charger 2006, and my 95 Windstar the braking is just better on all 3. I did several panic stops today from 30 or 35mph and measured the temps of the rotors with an infrared thermometer with a laser pointer.

35 mph run and quick stops:
Front Rotors: Low 300's F variance of about 15 degrees between the two.
Rear Rotors: Low 200's F variance of about 10-15 degrees between the two.

Highway drive to 70mph:
Front Rotors: High 300's F near 400F; variance of about 20 degrees between the two.
Rear Rotors: High 200's F near 300F; variance of about 10-15 degrees between the two.

Now what I don't know is if ANYONE is gonna know if those temps are within some kind of decent normal range. I was happy to see that they all seemed relatively close in temp to each other, but thats all I can say. Dunno if thats too hot or what.

hyperblue - Yeah I've made that mistake before too, but usually 99% of the time the lugs push the rotor all the way back once the wheels are back on. You can see at the front of the hub if its lined up right before you put the wheels on. I would think too if the rotors aren't flush that it would wobble the wheels big time. Though I have never known about "nubs and divots" on the back of rotors. Maybe I should take a gander.

nihil - I'll reverify the brake booster hose positioning, but I don't believe you can install the hose the wrong way without bending it up.

I have a lil bleeder container with a transparent hose attached so I watch that line as its bled for air bubbles. Its solid fluid coming out, but I'll rebleed anyway and see what happens.

I still also after all this time feel some kind of strange "popping" when I press the pedal all the way down. Before I replaced a single thing on the brake system I sought to eliminate this popping sound/feeling and after replacing everything, but of course the prop metering valve. I can't think of what else would be causing the scraping and this popping as I have bled the lines repeatedly.

So without further adue I've ordered a new proportioning valve which as I was saying somewhere before is actually listed as a metering valve as well and if a metering valve is bad it will cause loss of braking power. When I replace this damn thing if my issues aren't resolved then there's a demon in the car who's chosen to only live in the brakes.

[ProwlerGT]

Did the warm compression test earlier on the front bank:

Cylinder 1: 184
Cylinder 3: 180
Cylinder 5: 179

Looks really good on the front bank.

Will post the rear bank later.

I was thinking. Its been about 3 years since I really drove my car actively. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of it after all the hard work huh? It just does not seem to have the off the line pickup it used to. I feel fairly confident my mom's maxima could beat it in a race and I don't like knowing that. I just looked it up. The 2001 Maxima puts out 227hp. My NA 3000GT is supposed to be 220hp so as far as I'm concerned they should feel nearly the same. I guess its our slow ATX's that I'm noticing cause she idles and revs wonderful now. Maybe the seafoaming will yield me a noticeable difference and if not.... time for some MODS. lol - Also need to make sure the brakes aren't dragging after I replace the prop valve and then I'll be happy about what I think the acceleration should be.

[Nihil]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

Drivability test 2 - Today I went out again by myself and paid closer attention. Windows down I can hear the brakes scrapping the rotors the entire time while going 10 - 35mph. Comparing the braking to a 2001 maxima which has the same engine size, a dodge charger 2006, and my 95 Windstar the braking is just better on all 3. I did several panic stops today from 30 or 35mph and measured the temps of the rotors with an infrared thermometer with a laser pointer.

35 mph run and quick stops:
Front Rotors: Low 300's F variance of about 15 degrees between the two.
Rear Rotors: Low 200's F variance of about 10-15 degrees between the two.

Highway drive to 70mph:
Front Rotors: High 300's F near 400F; variance of about 20 degrees between the two.
Rear Rotors: High 200's F near 300F; variance of about 10-15 degrees between the two.

Now what I don't know is if ANYONE is gonna know if those temps are within some kind of decent normal range. I was happy to see that they all seemed relatively close in temp to each other, but thats all I can say. Dunno if thats too hot or what.



hyperblue - Yeah I've made that mistake before too, but usually 99% of the time the lugs push the rotor all the way back once the wheels are back on. You can see at the front of the hub if its lined up right before you put the wheels on. I would think too if the rotors aren't flush that it would wobble the wheels big time. Though I have never known about "nubs and divots" on the back of rotors. Maybe I should take a gander.

nihil - I'll reverify the brake booster hose positioning, but I don't believe you can install the hose the wrong way without bending it up.

I have a lil bleeder container with a transparent hose attached so I watch that line as its bled for air bubbles. Its solid fluid coming out, but I'll rebleed anyway and see what happens.

I still also after all this time feel some kind of strange "popping" when I press the pedal all the way down. Before I replaced a single thing on the brake system I sought to eliminate this popping sound/feeling and after replacing everything, but of course the prop metering valve. I can't think of what else would be causing the scraping and this popping as I have bled the lines repeatedly.

So without further adue I've ordered a new proportioning valve which as I was saying somewhere before is actually listed as a metering valve as well and if a metering valve is bad it will cause loss of braking power. When I replace this damn thing if my issues aren't resolved then there's a demon in the car who's chosen to only live in the brakes.

Welp...if the valve doesn't fix it.....then the idle demon moved to your brakes.....

When I bleed brakes, I have a hose, like fish aquarium hose, looped a 360* and held that way with a ziptie, I push it onto the bleeder and loosen it just enough so when you push on the pedal, fluid flows out. With the hose on there it won't let air back in, so you can sit in the car and keep pumping and not worry about air going back in. Keep doin that until you have somewhat clear, clean fluid. Also, you can reverse bleed by removing the reservoir cap and pushing the piston into the caliper, but make sure you keep an eye on the reservoir because you'll be forcing the fluid up there so it will overflow.

Maybe try both methods and get your fluid completely flushed to clean fluid...it'll take a lot of fluid though.

What's this popping? Maybe it's something with the mechanical parts in the pedal itself and not actually the braking part?

[Nihil]

Originally Posted by ProwlerGT

Did the warm compression test earlier on the front bank:

Cylinder 1: 184
Cylinder 3: 180
Cylinder 5: 179

Looks really good on the front bank.

Will post the rear bank later.

I was thinking. Its been about 3 years since I really drove my car actively. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of it after all the hard work huh? It just does not seem to have the off the line pickup it used to. I feel fairly confident my mom's maxima could beat it in a race and I don't like knowing that. I just looked it up. The 2001 Maxima puts out 227hp. My NA 3000GT is supposed to be 220hp so as far as I'm concerned they should feel nearly the same. I guess its our slow ATX's that I'm noticing cause she idles and revs wonderful now. Maybe the seafoaming will yield me a noticeable difference and if not.... time for some MODS. lol - Also need to make sure the brakes aren't dragging after I replace the prop valve and then I'll be happy about what I think the acceleration should be.

Do the exhaust......all of it, starting with a test pipe, then a custom downpipe/F-pipe. You'll notice a big difference, also, go single shot...if you can live with a single out of a dual bumper...or know how to do body work.

The exhaust will give you some quick pick-me-up that you'll enjoy.

[ProwlerGT]

Originally Posted by Nihil

Welp...if the valve doesn't fix it.....then the idle demon moved to your brakes.....

<...>

What's this popping? Maybe it's something with the mechanical parts in the pedal itself and not actually the braking part?

Yeap, I'm gonna have to call TANGINA (Poltergeist psychic/medium) and have her exercise the demons. They got her narrating those "chillingham castle" ghost shows now all spokey like. lol

Good ideas on the bleeding technique. I usually have a partner to help me with that so I'm not too worried about it. I do have speed bleeders which I'd rather use, but 1 of the bleeders wouldn't thread into the caliper so I opted not to install them cause on the back my rears are different thread sizes too. I didn't wanna mix it up.

I was wondering if the popping was the brake pedal itself as well, but that would seem odd. The popping happens when I get the pedal all the way down and then it gives (goes down) just a tiny tiny bit and makes the popping sound very subtle like. I know its not the booster cause I replaced that. I guess I could go down there and try to jostle the pedal at its bushing and see if it moves much. If so then buy a bushing kit for it.

1. What do you/ya'll think of emptying the brake fluid completely and running compressed air through the system with 1 caliper (or line just before the caliper) open at a time?

2. What about spraying brake parts cleaner in the lines and then forcing it through with slow compressed air. Let sit and then high compressed air it out LIBERALLY? I know I've seen several warnings about not putting anything near brake parts unless its brake fluid, but we all know this stuff dries up very well and i'd be immediately forcing it out of the system with lots of 50 - 60psi compressed air. My hunch is that there is junk caught at the junction metering valve that simply won't come out with regular flushes.