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Old 11-23-2012, 08:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

My 95' GTO SR is having a weird problem after my old engine was flooded and a rebuilt one was installed in its place. The rebuilt engine came as a bare block so all of the accessories from my original motor were transferred over to the new one.

Now, what I am experiencing is bogging at low speed/RPM like going around a round about, for example. It may be connected to acceleration and then slowing down, but I am not sure about that. It feels as if the fuel is suddenly cut off or the air is cut off, idk... When it happens, I press the gas pedal so I can get some more juice and get out of the round about or wherever I am so I won't stall there or make the driver behind me feel like I am crazy. When I hit the gas pedal, there is a little delay and then I get power again and it is fine after that, until the next episode. I think that the problem is worse when the car is cold and when the A/C is on. It also happens sometimes when I hit the brake to stop really fast. There were a couple of times when the car almost shut off (I saw warning lights on the dash, etc.).

Another thing that happens and I think is connected to the bogging is a weird surge in power when I accelerate quick from a stand still. The car rolls out regularly, until 30 feet away when all of a sudden it sounds and feels as if I am hitting 5000 RPMs... When that happens, I let of the gas for a split second and that stops the surge of power.

I used to notice small spikes in RPM at idle sometimes (not all the time) as well as during maintaining speed on the highway. When that happens, I hear the motor as if it gives itself a little bit more gas or as if I am touching the gas pedal a little harder and then letting off again several times. It is not as noticeable as to have jurks, but I can hear the change of tone coming from the engine.

The car also had a stiff gas pedal after the rebuild so I was told to replace the throttle body. I did that and the gas pedal feels normal now, but the rest of the issues were not fixed.

After the throttle body didn't fix the problems, I changed the IAC, but that didn't seem to change anything. Furthermore, the original IAC seemed to be in perfect shape after I opened it for inspection.

When these changes didn't fix the problem, I was told that it may be the VIC system so I bought a used upper manifold and replaced mine with it. Mine looked corroded from the water on the inside, while the replacement looked good. Well, that didn't fix the problems either!

The first thing I did was to scan the car for trouble codes (twice), but found none. Also, the plugs (NGK Platinum) and wires were changed when the new engine was installed.

Could it be the MAS? How about the TPS? Coolant temperature sensor? ECU? PTU? Fuel pump/filter? Dirty injectors?

Now, I am not completely sure what to test/replace next, so I would appreciate any advice you guys can offer... Thanks beforehand!
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Last edited by ilian51378; 11-23-2012 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

I have know clue why you keep guess about your performance issues. For all that typing you just did, you could have simply opened your service/repair manual and been done by now. Can't under stand why someone would replace a motor because it floods. Maybe I read it wrong. When your car is not running correctly, It is talking to you, but you are too freaken busy playing guessing games to pay attention to what your car is trying to tell you.
In the manual you will find a complete trouble shooting section that is 2nd to none. (Fuel injection section) Look up your issues and follow the instructions in the manual. It will tell you what to check, How to check and most importent what order to check. THis is really simple stuff here. That manual is writen on about a 5th grade reading level. THere is a welth of knowledge to be gained by opening the manual. And yes, your issues are in there.
The minute you stop playing around and guessing what the hell is wrong, you become surprise at just how well the entire systm was set up and managed. Not putting you down here. I see all newbees go through this. Relax with your manual for a while. Start reading. Put down the damn wrenches and read. You can put your wallet away for now too. Unless you really just wish to throw money away.
Good luck
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Last edited by GTwizard; 11-24-2012 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

Reading is a good thing. It dissipates frustration and fattens your wallet (when you dont buy unnecessary parts!).

Sounds like you have more than one problem. Read the manual. Do testing. Cross problems off the list. Keep in mind that CEL codes are for electronic issues.

-SP
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

I have a GM certified mechanic doing the work on my car. I am not just sitting down, thinking what's wrong with my car while having almost zero knowledge about cars. All the things I have done were recommended by the mechanic. Now, I would love to have enough time and read a lot so I can become verse with engines, but I have a full-time job, daughter, wife and another child on the way so I have some priorities in my life that come before my hobbies.

GTwizard, I was a newbie when I bought my first 3/S in 2003. I may not have become a 3/S certified mechanic since, but I have lerned a thing or two on the way. And the type of help like "read the manual" I have enough common sense to reach on my own. However, I have no time to do that and that is why I was looking for a little bit more detailed advice so I can save time. If no one is able to provide it, that's fine. It's just that "read the manual" has always sounded to me the way some Christian scholars answer to certain questions with "ask God and he will give you the answer..." since they are not able to do it themselves.

Anyway, today my mechanic will do some more testing to see if anything comes out.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilian51378 View Post
I have a GM certified mechanic doing the work on my car. I am not just sitting down, thinking what's wrong with my car while having almost zero knowledge about cars. All the things I have done were recommended by the mechanic. Now, I would love to have enough time and read a lot so I can become verse with engines, but I have a full-time job, daughter, wife and another child on the way so I have some priorities in my life that come before my hobbies.

GTwizard, I was a newbie when I bought my first 3/S in 2003. I may not have become a 3/S certified mechanic since, but I have learned a thing or two on the way. And the type of help like "read the manual" I have enough common sense to reach on my own. However, I have no time to do that and that is why I was looking for a little bit more detailed advice so I can save time. If no one is able to provide it, that's fine. It's just that "read the manual" has always sounded to me the way some Christian scholars answer to certain questions with "ask God and he will give you the answer..." since they are not able to do it themselves.

Anyway, today my mechanic will do some more testing to see if anything comes out.
i see this attitude all the time which brings another cliche to mind... "if you dont have anything nice to say...."
the manual is not the be all end all especially with mods and cars that have had screwed up work done.
one question i have is why do you have a gm mechanic working on it? at least have a dodge mechanic look at it if you wanna go that route. they may have stealth experience
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

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Originally Posted by humananimal View Post
i see this attitude all the time which brings another cliche to mind... "if you dont have anything nice to say...."
the manual is not the be all end all especially with mods and cars that have had screwed up work done.
one question i have is why do you have a gm mechanic working on it? at least have a dodge mechanic look at it if you wanna go that route. they may have stealth experience
I use a GM mechanic for two reasons:

1. In the Cayman Islands there is a limited choice of mechanics and
2. My father-in-law owns the Chevrolet dealership here.

A third reason is that this particular mechanic used to work (and still does) on Japanese cars a lot.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

I was just trying to help "YOU" and now as I see it your GM guy is not having much luck.
Go figure. GM cars are simple for sure. But he will make assumptions that do not apply to our cars. You sound like a smart guy. And you are no God Damn buisier than the rest of us and for sure do not have more on your plate than others. That's just life Dude.
The fact that you do not have a lot of damn choces who the hell you take the car to, does not in any way explain why you would spend so much time trying to get your car fixed, by others, and posting when you could have fixed it by now your self. All your efforts are for not. You sould be god damn reading rather than responding to Assholes like me.
THe fact that my son, when at 17 years old, built an entire 3000GT and motor, That we have been beeting the day light out of forever, All from the manual, while still in high school while working full time.
However, Not to be too big of an ass.
I do wish for safe and joyess holidays to you and your family.

You can also have your GM guy PM me for my phone, and will be glad to walk him through any issues that have him stumpped.
Not that I thik he will, but the offer is on the table.

Last edited by GTwizard; 11-24-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTwizard View Post
I was just trying to help "YOU" and now as I see it your GM guy is not having much luck.
Go figure. GM cars are simple for sure. But he will make assumptions that do not apply to our cars. You sound like a smart guy. And you are no God Damn buisier than the rest of us and for sure do not have more on your plate than others. That's just life Dude.
The fact that you do not have a lot of damn choces who the hell you take the car to, does not in any way explain why you would spend so much time trying to get your car fixed, by others, and posting when you could have fixed it by now your self. All your efforts are for not. You sould be god damn reading rather than responding to Assholes like me.
THe fact that my son, when at 17 years old, built an entire 3000GT and motor, That we have been beeting the day light out of forever, All from the manual, while still in high school while working full time.
However, Not to be too big of an ass.
I do wish for safe and joyess holidays to you and your family.

You can also have your GM guy PM me for my phone, and will be glad to walk him through any issues that have him stumpped.
Not that I thik he will, but the offer is on the table.
I never said you were an asshole... I just need some guidance from someone with more experience than me in this. I know about the manual, but i can't find time to deal with it right now. I am sure my mechanic knows his stuff so I let him work on my car. However, I will keep you in mind and shoot you a message if I need more specific info about something. Thanks! I wish you and your family happy holidays too!

By the way, I heard others say that they had never heard of an engine dieing from flooding in the 3/S community, but mine did. That was confirmed after relevant diagnostics and tests were done to it. It probably happened, because I tried to start the car while into the water. I am not going to spend money for another engine if the original wasn't dead. I did replace some parts that did not fix my problem, but I am not sorry for doing it, because after I saw the original parts (throttle body + upper intake manifold) on the inside and all the corrosion or whatever build up there was from the water that passed through, I felt happy those parts didn't get to stay on the car.

Last edited by ilian51378; 11-24-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

Was the car immersed in water, or the engines cylinders filled with gasoline?

Flooded means different things.

If the car has water damage, I'll be blunt- You're screwed. There are soooooooo many things that can go wrong.

I'm sure you feel slighted from previous posts but when you look for easy answers with no background we can only assume you havent a clue.

Good luck on repairs.

-SP
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: N/A Bogging+Surging Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy25 View Post
Was the car immersed in water, or the engines cylinders filled with gasoline?

Flooded means different things.

If the car has water damage, I'll be blunt- You're screwed. There are soooooooo many things that can go wrong.

I'm sure you feel slighted from previous posts but when you look for easy answers with no background we can only assume you havent a clue.

Good luck on repairs.

-SP
The engine was flooded with water that went in through the air intake. That's the reason why I replaced the engine block with a rebuilt one, but I used all the accessories from the old motor. I knew that the throttle body, IAC and upper intake manifold were probably damaged so I replaced them too, hoping to get my issues fixed.
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