92 SL with blown engine - huge CLATTER!

[stephenson]

Just bought 92 SL (135k) with blown engine - I actually wanted one with blown engine for father-son project. Just finished a rebuild on a 4L Jeep, and recognize this is more complex - Jeep sort of a warm-up :-)

I have seen, heard, and worked on several blown engines - but nothing sounded as awful as this thing - other than spinning a bearing (could happen anytime - but somehow this just doesn't sounds like that), or bending valves (usually only when jumping a couple teeth on the belt - this does sound more like that), is there anything else that could cause this horrific "clatter?"

I pulled the two cam covers to see if there was anything to indicate belt damage, etc, but looks clean, belt is tight, nothing out of the ordinary ... I also used contact scope to listen and the back bank of cylinders does sound worse - but is so darn loud, can't really tell.

PO just had the oil changed, and said this started - is there ANY chance this could be one or more valve lash adjusters with air in them - the shop manual seems to spend some significant time on this? How many with air in the adjuster would it take to make a significant amount of clatter?

Will drain oil next and maybe pull the pan to look.

Appreciate any comments or thoughts.

George

[1stStealthN/A]

I bought my first Stealth the same way, bad rod knock. It could be just the lifters drained down from sitting. It may be one of the timing belt pulleys or waterpump is making the noise. Maybe you can post a sound clip?
I would check the timing belt area first.

Good luck

[stephenson]

1st,

Thanks for reply - I tried the method recommended to get the valve lash adjusters pressured up - I can actually feel the clatter - perhaps "knock" is a better term, through the clutch pedal - the noise is pretty incredible so I am gonna have to stick with blown engine - spun bearing, perhaps.

How did your rebuild go? Anything really strange or pretty straightforward?

Appreciate any advice on best place to order rebuild kits.

Thanks, again.

[1stStealthN/A]

I bought a JDM engine with low miles for $800.00 in Chicago and swapped it out. Before I installed the used engine I replaced the water pump, timing belt, all timing belt pulleys, timing belt tensioner and pulley bolt. It's much easier working on it in an engine stand.

If you go with a used engine make sure it's pre 1993 as they changed to a crank sensor for timing where your 1992 engine has a cam angle sensor on the rear head.

If you want to go nuts you can flip the engine over and check the bearings too. I didn't but wish I had changed the oil pump as the oil pressure is just two ticks above zero at idle with engine hot.
The car runs great and is my daughter's daily driver.

Go all Mitsubishi on parts. They cost more but some will give you a discount if you are a 3Si or DSM member.

Have fun

[stephenson]

1stStealthN/A,

Thanks - after running it, again, rod knock - she's a goner!

I was looking at buying a JDM - lots of warnings on failures to get a "good" engine - is there any company that is stone cold reliable, even if a bit more expensive, to ensure an engine that really is in the 40-50K mile range, vice some of the horror stories? Also, are they available with transmissions, too? Is this a good idea - if nothing else, for space parts?

I agree - I think oil pump inspection and replacement probably a great idea - it there a chance it is the cause of so many spun bearings on these engines?

Also reasonable to pull pan and check the bearing tolerances and condition - I think I'll do this if I go the JDM route.

Any advice on pulling engine? I was considering pulling trans and engine and checking clutch at the same time - could check everything else and doesn't look much harder than pulling engine ...

Thanks!!

[stephenson]

Pulled pan - spun rod bearing on rod closest to the transmission - worn down more than half the thickness - both halves.

Everything else looks pretty good - oil could have been changed more often, for sure. Wonder if it is the oil pump that is the problem on these engines?

[jbavousett]

I just did a full rebuilt that was trashed by a bad (brand new) oil pump before the shop could deliver it to me...the head mech was test driving it after they stabbed the motor in. You should have seen the bearings, they melted out like butter. Nothing but copper showing on the inside. Anyway, just got the car back, second build on the motor. This oil pump seems good, but I did have three lifters that were collapsed...brand new lifters. It's the little things that kill you. (At least the shop bought me a new crank...)

[phantomrt]

My Grand Prix's transmission died on me 300 miles from home, so I brought it into a local shop to see if they could do a diagnosis, mostly to see if I could get it home somehow. All they did was start it up, notice a whine from the transmission, noticed that it was slipping, and charged me $80 to tell me I needed a new transmission for a total cost of $2134. How bout we do some diagnosis, eh? Thats what the diagnosis fee is for, right? Yah, a $200 car and I'm going to put that much into it. They were going to charge me $1200 for a USED transmission.

The shop was very much dead at the time, and I kindly asked them to be reasonable. I was very kind and considerate that their efforts are far from free. The transmission R&R takes 6 hours times $70/hr = $420. I know that their cost at the local junk yard was no where near $1200 for a USED transmission. Estimated cost of $400 for one of those. Assuming $50 for shop supplies, $20 environmental disposal fees, $50 tax... lets see. $420 + 400 + 50 + 20 + 50 = $940. I was never going to come back for any kind of warranty claim since I was an out-of-towner. I might have actually paid that because after the cost to get the thing towed back home via U-haul dolley and a truck would have crept up on that price after what it would cost me to do it at home.

So, I left there, limping the car along. I discovered that once I could slip the transmission up to 50 mph, and get it to shift into overdrive and have torque converter lockup, I could drive indefinitely. So, I crept up onto the interestate, and drove all the way home like that with no issues. Called a local junk yard, $374 after tax for a transmission with 80k miles, $40 in misc supplies, and for $405 or so, and 1 weekend of labor later, I was back on the road. Their loss, my gain. The car is still a big POS though.

[1stStealthN/A]

Originally Posted by stephenson

1stStealthN/A,

Thanks - after running it, again, rod knock - she's a goner!

I was looking at buying a JDM - lots of warnings on failures to get a "good" engine - is there any company that is stone cold reliable, even if a bit more expensive, to ensure an engine that really is in the 40-50K mile range, vice some of the horror stories? Also, are they available with transmissions, too? Is this a good idea - if nothing else, for space parts?

I agree - I think oil pump inspection and replacement probably a great idea - it there a chance it is the cause of so many spun bearings on these engines?

Also reasonable to pull pan and check the bearing tolerances and condition - I think I'll do this if I go the JDM route.

Any advice on pulling engine? I was considering pulling trans and engine and checking clutch at the same time - could check everything else and doesn't look much harder than pulling engine ...

Thanks!!

It's really tight to pull just the engine on the manual trans car. Pull the transmission with the engine, you'll be glad you did. You can pull just the engine on the automatic cars easily. I remove the half shafts from the trans and hub bearings too just to lube up the splines and check the hub bearings.

Change the waterpump, timing belt, all pulleys and tensioner on that JDM engine, you really don't know how many actual miles are on it.

Check the bearings on the JDM engine too. You can tell alot about the engine by pulling the pan. Sludge buildup, bottom of pistons, cylinder walls, thrust bearing wear, debris in the oil pan, etc. That way you can return it if it looks bad before you go through the time and expense of installing it.

Good luck