Are you running injectors that are too large? - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

Hammer · 06-05-2008, 11:56 PM

Ok I know there are quite a few of you out there that did not listen to Trevor
and are running much larger injectors than you need and are having timing problems. Namely too much timing advance. I read a lot of these threads.

Ok I have a possible natural fix for you. Try E85 fuel.
E85 likes more advance timing than gas and requires 30% larger injectors than
gas does. Whats more you should be able to run boost at least as high as you can on race gas and in most cases a couple of pounds higher boost as well. If your car is close to fuel cut on race gas then doing this on E85 will probably cause fuel cut as you need about 30% more fuel than you do on gas.

It may be possible to lean our cars on E85 as well many other cars have had a lot of success running only 10-15% more E85 than gas.

My guess is most of us will have a lot easier time getting big power from E85
as it has many properties favorable to turbos than we do have with pump/race gas. It also is A WHOLE LOT more forgiving on the engine should you mess up the tune.

Waiting to hear a lot of success stories.

One word of warning another member of 3SI has had a bearing failure on E85 which he attributes to hard starting in the winter.
Lots of engine cranking in the winter loaded up fuel in the oil which he claims was responsible for the bearing failure.
Not sure if he had winter blend E70 to use or not.

I am a summer time driver only with my car so I do not anticipate this problem with my car.

a2j · 06-06-2008, 08:18 PM

yeah, I'm all for it.

markoverclock · 06-06-2008, 08:36 PM

ill make an aem tune for mine after i do the turbo kit next weekend. that way i can switch back and forth if i want to.

im mainly gonna try it for the lean tune of everyday driving. trying to get 25mpg.

right now im only getting about 19 i probally could get 20 but i want to play it safe right now. i have a really bad exhaust leak and im waiting to replace the manifolds with my design. then ill read both banks and do a tune for it.

will also make a wot boost tune for it to. then a pump gas one and really compare the difference. since i have a new mustang dyno i can use for free

.

and i have meth. last but not least will be the c16.

keithmac · 06-09-2008, 09:15 AM

What`s it like on our rubber o-rings and seals and can the pump handle it?.

91vr4n00maxima · 06-09-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithmac

What`s it like on our rubber o-rings and seals and can the pump handle it?.

no problems.

ulrich · 07-01-2008, 03:03 PM

Even with relatively higher boost levels, I seriously doubt you will be making as much power as with gasoline in your current engine.
To take full advantage of any alcohol you would need quite high compression ratios, as well as much more fuel...

So essentially you'd be making less power, would have to get gas more often and thus probably wouldn't be saving anything noteworthy in the end.

1fastvr4 · 07-01-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulrich

Even with relatively higher boost levels, I seriously doubt you will be making as much power as with gasoline in your current engine.
To take full advantage of any alcohol you would need quite high compression ratios, as well as much more fuel...

So essentially you'd be making less power, would have to get gas more often and thus probably wouldn't be saving anything noteworthy in the end.

Not true. There have been documented cases of people with before and after results with only adjusting the A/F to match what they were at before and picking up 20-30 hp/tq after switching to E85. Not to mention slightly quicker spool. I have been running E85 for about 2 months. As far as cost you usually come out slightly better with E85. When regular 85 octane was 3.98 a gallon here in Denver I was still getting E85 for 2.79 a gallon.

Below is a video of a couple runs a few weeks ago only running 20 psi (need bigger injectors to go higher) on E85. This is in Denver at 5800' and I weighed the car with me it after the run and it was 3900 lbs exactly. The 11.65 was with a 1.87 60'. I love the safety factor that I am getting with E85 and it smells good too.

I will up the boost once I install the bigger injectors to get some better numbers.

YouTube - Deans first day at the track with the Evo 3 16g's

Dean

Storm Strike · 07-01-2008, 06:05 PM

I'd love to run E85 all the time. I don't put more than a 1000 miles a year, if that on my car. It's more of a road course open track day toy than anything. But, E85 isn't available anywhere around me yet. When it's being sold everywhere, including near the track, I'll switch and try it.

gltasn · 07-01-2008, 07:34 PM

id like to hear what matt at dr has to say on the matter. i kinda trust what the only 8 sec. car builder runs in his car. when he starts raving about e85 i will try it. matt where's your post? j sin

ulrich · 07-01-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fastvr4

Not true. There have been documented cases of people with before and after results with only adjusting the A/F to match what they were at before and picking up 20-30 hp/tq after switching to E85. etc..

Dean

Well glad to hear! But what you are saying doesn't make much sense. If the only thing you are adjusting is the Air fuel ratio, then gasoline should come out on top no matter what.. being that it stores quite a bit more energy than any alcohol ever will. Dragsters and whatnot solely make more power due to the immense increases in compression and higher octane of the fuel (and subsequent increases in fuel quantity)

But, your results sure do seem to be quite good.

06-05-2008, 11:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hammer Hammer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Grand Forks ND Drives: 95 3000gt vr4 stock Trader Rating: (1)	Are you running injectors that are too large? Ok I know there are quite a few of you out there that did not listen to Trevor and are running much larger injectors than you need and are having timing problems. Namely too much timing advance. I read a lot of these threads. Ok I have a possible natural fix for you. Try E85 fuel. E85 likes more advance timing than gas and requires 30% larger injectors than gas does. Whats more you should be able to run boost at least as high as you can on race gas and in most cases a couple of pounds higher boost as well. If your car is close to fuel cut on race gas then doing this on E85 will probably cause fuel cut as you need about 30% more fuel than you do on gas. It may be possible to lean our cars on E85 as well many other cars have had a lot of success running only 10-15% more E85 than gas. My guess is most of us will have a lot easier time getting big power from E85 as it has many properties favorable to turbos than we do have with pump/race gas. It also is A WHOLE LOT more forgiving on the engine should you mess up the tune. Waiting to hear a lot of success stories. One word of warning another member of 3SI has had a bearing failure on E85 which he attributes to hard starting in the winter. Lots of engine cranking in the winter loaded up fuel in the oil which he claims was responsible for the bearing failure. Not sure if he had winter blend E70 to use or not. I am a summer time driver only with my car so I do not anticipate this problem with my car. Last edited by Hammer : 06-08-2008 at 02:38 AM.

06-06-2008, 08:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
markoverclock Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tomball,Tx Drives: 92 RT-TT Trader Rating: (43)	Re: Are you running injectors that are too large? ill make an aem tune for mine after i do the turbo kit next weekend. that way i can switch back and forth if i want to. im mainly gonna try it for the lean tune of everyday driving. trying to get 25mpg. right now im only getting about 19 i probally could get 20 but i want to play it safe right now. i have a really bad exhaust leak and im waiting to replace the manifolds with my design. then ill read both banks and do a tune for it. will also make a wot boost tune for it to. then a pump gas one and really compare the difference. since i have a new mustang dyno i can use for free . and i have meth. last but not least will be the c16.

06-09-2008, 09:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
keithmac Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: YORK / UK Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Are you running injectors that are too large? What`s it like on our rubber o-rings and seals and can the pump handle it?. __________________ JDM GTO TT, Emanage Blue - 450`s Hotwired Walbro - Gutted MAS - K&N Blitz SSBC - Aquamist Water Injection

07-01-2008, 06:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
Storm Strike Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: PA Trader Rating: (8)	Re: Are you running injectors that are too large? I'd love to run E85 all the time. I don't put more than a 1000 miles a year, if that on my car. It's more of a road course open track day toy than anything. But, E85 isn't available anywhere around me yet. When it's being sold everywhere, including near the track, I'll switch and try it. __________________ '92 Stealth RT/TT, Sandstorm, 125K miles Currently installed: E-MBC, SS brake lines, Motul 600 BF, FN01R-C rims, ATR DP, test pipe, and exhaust, EK2Mfg EGR blockoff plates, MAFT-Pro, S-ITC, Dejon Tool intake runners, JIC FTL-A2 struts, PST CFDS, Tial BOV, MSD 8.5mm plug wires, Accelerated Motorsports catch can, Ebay FMIC, Evo 560's, IPO dual feed fuel lines, Greddy P/W/H EGT gauge, IPO battery relocation, Optima red top, PWR radiator, DSM shifter bushings, custom WW fluid tank, Saner F/R swaybars, PLX WB O2 setup, SCE StopTech ST-40 332x33 front brake upgrade & 300mm rear rotors, SCE tender springs, SCE caster/camber plates, Titan Bending f header, 15G turbos,forged crank, Crower rods, Weisco pistons, DR Stage 2 heads, TRS seats, 5 pnt harnesses.

07-01-2008, 07:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
gltasn j sin Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: alaska, anchorage Drives: 95 mitz 3kgt vr4 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Are you running injectors that are too large? id like to hear what matt at dr has to say on the matter. i kinda trust what the only 8 sec. car builder runs in his car. when he starts raving about e85 i will try it. matt where's your post? j sin __________________ "If I was as slow as you, they'ed bury me!" terry canfield(dad)

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