whats the best turbo for low-mid 11's

[ajimmyjammin]

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

Said this before but this platform is in the fucking stoneages with this idea that anything past a 15G makes a 3S into a drag car incapable of winning a street race, huge lag, and not daily driveable. Soo far from the truth.

i think trevor has made mention of it before.....his 16g's may have been alittle slower to full spool than a larger tdo4 car BUT he was still making at least 60 awhp more at ANY given rpm.

[neverenoughhp]

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

His post indicates drag racing not autoX, road courses, and the street. DR500is a horrid choice when discussing the "best turbo" for low-mid 11s.

The point of this thread is to help the originator and others with turbo selection with recs and examples; not attack others and get off topic. Your rec is TD05; fine. Mine is TD04. move on.

However, Im not going to let you be an ass esp when your statements are false. Go back and read his first post. It says road race AS MUCH AS drag race, MINIMAL lag, street car, and wants to get into 11s. I provided an option for high 11s consistently and it is up to him to decide if he wants to lean more towards drag racing or road racing. If he really wants low 11s and does not want to adress driveline loss, weight, etc; I agree with you; TD05. Btw, why are you hung up on DR-500s? I never rec that. I said 16Ts. It seems that you are more interested in picking fights than you are in helping.

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

Another TD04 fanboi with no real experience making bullshit claims.

My real claim is my exp with my car. I do not claim to have exp with TD05 but i have seen the boost and hp curves; they do have more lag than a smaller TD04. fact; why are we even talking about this.

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

My TD04 car was MUCH more difficult to deal with because I had no room for error. I had to keep it pig rich and keep the timing down because at pump gas levels, I was near the end of their limits. The car just ran hot all the time.

Fine, that is your exp. Mine is different; very easy to tune my car. Maybe it would be even easier if i went to a TD05 and you would be right. fine.

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

After the TD05 setup, I rarely if ever datalog. I keep the car low 11 AFR and pull some timing and never worry. EVER. In fact, I have yet to see EGTS past 930C.

I dont even need to worry about timing, mid 11 afr, no knock, and low egts. I do not push the limits of my car; I usually run 19.x on race fuel and 15.x on pump. Have made 30+ passes this year.

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

Said this before but this platform is in the fucking stoneages with this idea that anything past a 15G makes a 3S into a drag car incapable of winning a street race, huge lag, and not daily driveable. Soo far from the truth.

Let me ask you this. Why do you need an 800 hp turbo just to run low 11s? Other platforms would run 9s or low 10s with that size turbo. Yes the answer is easy but they real question is why would you NOT minimize the weaknesses of our cars; weight, driveline, loss, bla bla. Lots of hp and weight = breaking more often, more difficult to turn, stop, etc. Like I said, I would like to build another car with 16gs or DR-800s for street/strip. Dont think i dislike the 16gs or even disagree with you about the turbos; we are just looking at the rest of the build differently.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[DJAuggie]

Originally Posted by neverenoughhp

Btw, why are you hung up on DR-500s? I never rec that. I said 16Ts. It seems that you are more interested in picking fights than you are in helping.

I am hung up on DR500s because they do not belong in any discussion regarding best turbo for MID/LOW 11s. Your post referenced another person who ran X given the impression it's a viable option. It really isn't.

This is not me picking fights. I am tired of reading these misled posts and watch some poor bastard get his MID/LOW 11 DR500 car to the track for it to run LOW 12s like the majority of those.

Originally Posted by neverenoughhp

My real claim is my exp with my car. I do not claim to have exp with TD05 but i have seen the boost and hp curves; they do have more lag than a smaller TD04. fact; why are we even talking about this.

Are you sure you seen a TD05 boost/HP curve because only people who mention lag and TD05 are those that really don't know.

Originally Posted by neverenoughhp

Fine, that is your exp. Mine is different; very easy to tune my car. Maybe it would be even easier if i went to a TD05 and you would be right. fine.

When did you tune a TD05 to even have an experience to offer? Please do not comment on something that is purely speculation and offer it as fact. Sure, the bigger injectors probably require timing control but it seems like MANY owners install oversided injectors on their setup anyhow and could use it. Regardless, stating that it requires a shop to tune is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by neverenoughhp

I dont even need to worry about timing, mid 11 afr, no knock, and low egts. I do not push the limits of my car; I usually run 19.x on race fuel and 15.x on pump. Have made 30+ passes this year.

Congrats? Sounds like a similiar experience with my shop tuned race car.

Originally Posted by neverenoughhp

Let me ask you this. Why do you need an 800 hp turbo just to run low 11s?

800CHP or 800AWHP? 800CHP is about right for a LOW 11 second 3/S at stock weight and even a better than average driver.

[neverenoughhp]

There was talk about who did what without mentioning Scott so I posted it; I never suggested a DR-500 for this guy and i have said that again and again. Honestly, I dont think we are in disagreement on anything to do with turbos or horsepower. I understand what the hp potential is for the various turbos as well as boost curves. The difference is the other mods I suggest to go alone with the turbo and the reason I suggested a different build strategy is b/c of what this guy wants to do.

Take two cars with the same power to weight ratio; 7.71. One car with 16gs making 490 AWHP and full weight 3780. Another with 16Ts making 445 AWHP and 3430 lbs which is an easy 350lbs of savings. In acceleration and trap speed they should be pretty similar which is relevant for drag racing. So either route is ok and up to driver preference. However, on a road course the car with less weight should have lower lap times. Or, the heavier car would have to have better suspension and better brakes to make the same lap time. This is the reason I rec the 16T b/c he wants a well rounded car.

Not sure why you asked me about tuning a TD05; never said i did. In fact I stated that I would leave the TD05 tuning discussion to you guys with the experience with them. I only know what I have read and seen on this site as well as talking to guys in person about theirs.

These are just stylistic differences in opinions man. There is hardly anything you said that I disaree with factually. You are talking horsepower only and i am talking about complete build strategy. Lets move on.

[Import Power]

Take a look at the Quicklist
3squicklist.com

Take a look at the mid-low 11 second runs.

Also keep in mind that these are the BEST runs that car/driver did on that setup. And more times than not there are handfulls of time slips with slower times. Only the BEST one gets recorded on the list.

That should give you a good idea what you need for XX time slip. Best case scenario, good or better driver, stars all aligned.

[2xmks]

My vote is usually always with a TD05 or a DR setup.

I always find it funny when people state how much lag the TD05 setups have. "They are not a street car" etc... I have a buddy with a well tunned 15G setup. From a dead stop, not dumping the clutch, he gets about half a car ahead of me before I take him over. From a 3500rpm roll he has no chance. Dumping the clutch he has no chance. If you want to stab the throttle and go like a bat out of hell buy a vette.

As with anything it is in the setup. A well setup TD05 car is alot of fun in town or down the highway. The same can be said of a TD04 setup. I've ran 15G's myself and I can honestly say I will never go back.

[neverenoughhp]

Its up to this guy. The thread title says low to mid 11s but his post says just in the 11s and road racing as much as drag racing. Everything I have said is based off of his post. If he really wants low 11s i already said i agree; TD05.

I am familiar with the quick list, I know hp and boost of the turbos, and I know what basic times people run with a full weight car. I am proposing a different strategy of getting to the same place. That strategy involves addressing the inherent weaknesses of a 3/s. Its like this is blowing your mind or something; you just cant grasp it. Just b/c the poeple on the quick list did it one way doesnt mean that it is wrong to do it another way. And it does not mean that what i proposed is right either. It is just different strategy with same results. Up to the owner. I enjoy learning from people with different view points. Dont know why you guys are going nuts over something that is different.

All of this is really due to us talking about different things. 1) You are going off of the title of the thread and I was going off of the post. 2) You are talking only about drag race times of a full or near full weight cars when i am talking about a more dynamic car that is not constrained by weight. I do not disagree with anything you said about the best way to get to LOW 11s or anything related to turbos or horsepower potential. I dont get on here to argue with you guys especially its only a difference in build strategy preference.

[JasonY]

Not a single person except for that innovator guy has EVER EVER EVER wished they stayed with TD04's. That alone should be a good indicator that TD04's are a thing of the past if you want a chance to ever run with newer cars or really be all that fast.

My MOM's old E55 AMG ran as 12.18 and trapped 118mph, it woulda won 3rd place or w/e at the NG drags this year, fast sedans are all over the place nowadays, Vettes go 120mph now almost stock in the 1/4.

If you wanna run with the newer cars of today, you cant really mess around with TD04's for a day in/day out fast car. TD04's had their time and still do for the people who cant afford these cars but still want to own one.

Jason

[DJAuggie]

Originally Posted by JasonY

Not a single person except for that innovator guy has EVER EVER EVER wished they stayed with TD04's.

Is that before or after he blew up his new setup?

I think it was 40PSI or so on 93 octane?

[7eddiedoowop7]

I know they are tdo4, but how do the 16t's compare with the td05 16g? could an argument be made for them as a reliable high 11 sec? if so, that seems like a decent compromise for cost/power/boost response. also, if using td05, isn't some modification required, or adapters? Those will also add to the cost, just things to consider.

As far as road racing, I think you are usually in higher rpm range where lag is of little issue anyways. If price difference is not an issue and you plan on dragging at all go big.