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Old 01-15-2013, 02:09 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

If you're still curious, I checked the block surface for flatness. I'd say it's not the problem. I couldn't get a .003 inch feeler gauge between the straight edge and the block anywhere. We'll see how bad the heads were tomorrow if they can get them done early enough.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

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Originally Posted by pwhite2012 View Post
If you're still curious, I checked the block surface for flatness. I'd say it's not the problem. I couldn't get a .003 inch feeler gauge between the straight edge and the block anywhere. We'll see how bad the heads were tomorrow if they can get them done early enough.
I did not think that the block would of had a problem but it is always good practice to check. That is good news though. One less thing to worry about. With fresh milled heads, you should be within the service limits and OEM gaskets are sure to seal.

P.S. But check their work anyway. Did you take any measurements of the heads before you sent them in? That would be good information to have. If not, ask the machine shop what measurements they got for each head.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

I just got my heads back, and I totally forgot to ask what measurements they got before. They said they took off .005", though. I had to go out of town right after, so I haven't gotten a chance to check them myself, yet. I'll do that tonight when I get back. I'll let you know what results I get.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:13 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

Here are some pictures of a couple things that I can't figure out.

The first picture is of the two connectors I mentioned earlier. One of them goes into the fans, but I'm not exactly sure which one. One of the connectors seems to go into the headlight bucket, and the other one seems to go up under the fusebox.

The second picture is of a vacuum hose that I just now noticed. I have no clue what it goes to. There's nothing around it that I can find. If you follow it up, it goes into small silver piping that lays against the body of the car. It's the piping where there's 5 or so pipes beside each other that follow the contours of the body.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Here are some pictures of a couple things that I can't figure out.

The first picture is of the two connectors I mentioned earlier. One of them goes into the fans, but I'm not exactly sure which one. One of the connectors seems to go into the headlight bucket, and the other one seems to go up under the fusebox.

The second picture is of a vacuum hose that I just now noticed. I have no clue what it goes to. There's nothing around it that I can find. If you follow it up, it goes into small silver piping that lays against the body of the car. It's the piping where there's 5 or so pipes beside each other that follow the contours of the body.
The connector that goes into the fuse box is for the passenger side fan.

The thing you are holding looks like a charcoal canister line but I am not positive. I am having trouble with orientation. Is this on the passenger side?
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:47 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

The hose is on the passenger side. It's pretty much under the fuse box. The white thing you see at the top is the coolant overflow tank, if it helps you orient yourself. I believe you can see the clutch booster at the bottom of the picture.

What about the other connector that comes out of the headlight bucket? It's a '91 that I converted to a '99 front end. Could it be the power for the old pop-up headlights?

Update: Just got the timing belt on. Talk about a pain - literally and metaphorically. I'm bleeding from at least 5 spots on each hand from the cam gears slipping while my hand was near. Oh well, I guess. Everything from here on is pretty much cake. I hope to have it done tomorrow in the early afternoon.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The hose is on the passenger side. It's pretty much under the fuse box. The white thing you see at the top is the coolant overflow tank, if it helps you orient yourself. I believe you can see the clutch booster at the bottom of the picture.
Yeah, that goes to the charcoal canister. Then a thin vacuum line runs to the hard vacuum line under the thermostat housing, then connects to a soft hose again and to the solenoid on the firewall bracket.

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What about the other connector that comes out of the headlight bucket? It's a '91 that I converted to a '99 front end. Could it be the power for the old pop-up headlights?
Not sure about that other connector. I only have one connector in that area on my 91. It must have connected somewhere in front of the evaporator core. You may be right. That is where I would look.

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Update: Just got the timing belt on. Talk about a pain - literally and metaphorically. I'm bleeding from at least 5 spots on each hand from the cam gears slipping while my hand was near.
Would have been a lot easier with the engine out, ya think?

So did you get any feedback from the machinist on warpage? Were you able to verify his work?

Last edited by westcott; 01-18-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

Yeah, it definitely would've been easier with it out of the engine bay, but it definitely would've taken at least twice as long in the end.

As for the machinist, I was in a bit of a rush, so all I was able to find out was that he shaved off .005". When I got home, I checked them out, though. I could only just slightly get a .0015" feeler gauge under the straight in a couple places. If this doesn't seal, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Last edited by pwhite2012; 01-18-2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Forgot a word
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:25 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

Alright, so I'm about done messing with this. It still smokes like crazy and antifreeze is leaking very slowly, but quicker when the car starts, from near the oil pan. I know my ignition timing might be slightly off, but it still shouldn't be smoking like crazy like it is. There's also some blue smoke along with the white smoke. The smell is kind of sickening.

At first, it took a long time to start, but once it started the first time, it started just a bit slowly every time after that. It also only smoked from the front side, but after a test drive, it started smoking from both sides.

On the test drive, it had next to no power. It had trouble getting much over 2000 rpms. It was also missing a lot, I'm assuming because the head gasket didn't seal once again. I don't have a clue what more it could be other than the head gasket.

I don't know what more I could have done. It's as flat of a surface as possible. I'm thinking it's about time that I save up to have a shop do it, though I don't know what they'll do differently. I followed the service manual for everything and torqued everything down to spec. I torqued the head bolts down 30-60-90 in the correct order, broke them all loose in reverse order, and re-torqued them all directly to 90, exactly like the service manual says. I lubed the bolts with 10W-30 Royal Purple, the same as I put in my car. If I do decide to do it again, I'll just use the graphite head gaskets. They may not hold up to the forces from the different materials, but it should seal much easier. Past that, I'm lost.

If anybody has any ideas of what else it could be or what I should do, it would be appreciated.

P.S. Sorry for the super long post. I'm all flustrated (like my new term?), and I guess I'm using this to vent a little bit. Plus, the fumes are making me a bit dizzy...`
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: VR-4 hardly starts

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwhite2012 View Post
Alright, so I'm about done messing with this. It still smokes like crazy and antifreeze is leaking very slowly, but quicker when the car starts, from near the oil pan. I know my ignition timing might be slightly off, but it still shouldn't be smoking like crazy like it is. There's also some blue smoke along with the white smoke. The smell is kind of sickening.

At first, it took a long time to start, but once it started the first time, it started just a bit slowly every time after that. It also only smoked from the front side, but after a test drive, it started smoking from both sides.

On the test drive, it had next to no power. It had trouble getting much over 2000 rpms. It was also missing a lot, I'm assuming because the head gasket didn't seal once again. I don't have a clue what more it could be other than the head gasket.

I don't know what more I could have done. It's as flat of a surface as possible. I'm thinking it's about time that I save up to have a shop do it, though I don't know what they'll do differently. I followed the service manual for everything and torqued everything down to spec. I torqued the head bolts down 30-60-90 in the correct order, broke them all loose in reverse order, and re-torqued them all directly to 90, exactly like the service manual says. I lubed the bolts with 10W-30 Royal Purple, the same as I put in my car. If I do decide to do it again, I'll just use the graphite head gaskets. They may not hold up to the forces from the different materials, but it should seal much easier. Past that, I'm lost.

If anybody has any ideas of what else it could be or what I should do, it would be appreciated.

P.S. Sorry for the super long post. I'm all flustrated (like my new term?), and I guess I'm using this to vent a little bit. Plus, the fumes are making me a bit dizzy...`
Is there water in the oil?

What head gaskets did you use?
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